It was about “restoring honor” or something, whatever that’s supposed to mean.All that implicit whiteness, wasted. Beck and Palin are trying to take back the real America, and for them the real America is the one that leftists have spent the decades since 1965 turning into the one we know today, the one with white race replacement built into its very foundations. Beck and Palin are proud of their people, proud that they have voluntarily - or involuntarily, depending on your point of view - relinquished the nation controlled by their ethnic group for the great universal nation, where all are welcome - except the natives - where MLK is the only Ph.D. (other than Kissinger, perhaps) routinely styled "doctor" and who has become America's patron saint.
Or it was a way of supporting the troops, depending on which day you listened to Beck.
Then it turned into a rally to reclaim the Civil Rights movement, and give it back to the people who Beck swears pioneered the Civil Rights movement, right wing conservatives. Yes, that’s what Beck actually claims to believe. Leave it to Glenn Beck to make white-hating black columnist Leonard Pitts look sane and reasonable. [...]
As it turned out, the rally was actually a huge revival meeting, in which Beck implored America to turn back to the god(s) of our Jewish-Christian-Muslim-Hindu-Mormon-Voodoo-Sikh-Zoroastrian heritage that made America great. He had over 200 members of the clergy on the podium, and he stressed that they were from “all faiths” and it didn’t matter which god we pray to, as long as we pray to something or someone, singular or plural. Just pick a higher power and go with it. In other words, it was the largest Alcoholics Anonymous meeting in history. Listen as Beck tells the crowd to “go back to your church, your synagogue, your mosque” and get to work on “refounding America.”
An anecdote: the other day when I was out shopping, I became more than usually cognizant of the large number of illegal aliens around, many of the women toting their anchor babies. The sentiment that hit me was that I lost all respect for white people for allowing this to happen. The sentiment is not entirely fair, I realize, yet the mass of apolitical whites who spend their time watching televised sports or driving around in their SUVs have, partly through their own fault, been droned into a state of stupor in which their nation is rapidly being stolen from them. Beck and Palin's rally has done nothing to dissuade me from that feeling. They, like so many white Americans, are too stupid to see what is in front of their eyes.
This would be fine if the costs of this treason fell only on those guilty of it. But the costs will fall on children yet unborn, and in many cases the children of people who did all they dared.
ReplyDeleteEvidence for this: the strong link between White fertility and White ethnocentricity, as measured by representative opposition to McCain-Kennedy.
http://statsaholic.blogspot.com/2010/01/white-ethnocentrism-and-white-fertility.html
- Daybreaker
On a somewhat related theme, the more I read of English-Russian relations in the 20th century the more I think the decay started long before we usually think it did. In particular, the Brits treated the various anti-Communist Russian forces absolutely abominably. Incredible short-sightedness. Things like turning over Russian and Ukrainian anti-communist military units to Stalin at the end of WW2, or deliberately stripping the White Russian forces of equipment during the post-WW1 civil war, or the comparatively well-known English sympathy for the Arabs at the expense of the Russians. The repeated short-sighted plays for short-term advantage with absolutely no thought to the longer-term consequences are just astounding, almost to the point of making me not regret what is happening to England now.
ReplyDeleteThe hope is that all those whites will get tired of being called racists, even when they are doing their best to be inclusive, and will therefore become vehement racists. I'm not sure if I buy that.
ReplyDeleteI think a better strategy would be to get all the closet racists in the tea party, of which I think there are many, and get them to join something like A3P.
OTOH, the responsibility of voting and self-government is heavier than most Americans can bear. Can you hand a child a sharp knife and blame him for cutting himself and others?
ReplyDelete"Things like turning over Russian and Ukrainian anti-communist military units to Stalin at the end of WW2": it was a grim business, and I dare say more were handed over than need have been. But the Russians had captured British PoWs from the Germans and we'd never have got them back without that grim trade. Of course, handing over people who'd fought for the Nazis (that is what you mean by "anti-communist military units" isn't it?) might not have been all that hard for those of the troops who'd seen the concentration camps, but it was taken badly by some of the troops who hadn't.
ReplyDeleteI am French and I live in Germany, and here too I often feel the same as this blog writer. It's gotten to the point that in some neighborhoods you would have a hard time spotting an ethnic German.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I cannot, like Mr Mangan, blame the great mass of average French or German people who let this happen by constantly reelecting the same people since fifty years. The amount of propaganda they've been subjected to at school or through the media since their youngest age is truly astonishing, extremely well conceived and perfectly executed ; our present masters have truly mastered the art of subtly directing one's feelings and thoughts.
Another matter are those who are truly wicked and have rationally decided to eliminate their own heritage by subscribing to the "melting pot" ideology. Those are the real culprits.
"of all those who consciously or unconsciously oppose the Majority cause, the modern conservative is the most dangerous"
ReplyDeleteWilmot Robertson, The Dispossessed Majority
Beck has used PC judo to execute a deft auto-takedown. I care nothing for him since he called Wilders [Godwin's law invoked] and cared little for him before that.
ReplyDeletePalin is so sweet I wish everyone would leave her alone. Also I wish she would get off the television forever and visit the lower 48 only in dark sunglasses and wearing a platinum wig.
Palin's fame is the fault of John McCain, not of the right. As for the right itself ... well ...
Is there any political sector whose most famous are articulators are highbrow? Lowbrows are the most famous exponent of every major wing, and the nationalist right is the exception that proves the rule* - the most famous national-rightists are fairly highbrow so they're not very famous. Brimelow, Sailer, Tancredo, etc. So even if there were a response to Beck & Palin from the right it wouldn't necessarily be people who could speak the proper basilect required to reach the public.
Beck's statement that "Obama has a deep seated hatred for white people" was plenty sufficient for having my support.
ReplyDelete...He distanced himself from that statement this week:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/29/glenn-beck-regrets-callin_n_698580.html
the most famous national-rightists are fairly highbrow
ReplyDeleteThis is what's so amusing about the Steveosphere. We're supposedly a bunch of unenlightened racists, yet I defy anyone to find a more intellectually vibrant online political community.
And you forgot to include me BTW :)
Ahh yes, the "melting pot" traitors!!
ReplyDeleteOne can almost hear the jackboots even now.
Tell you what, before dismissing "assimilationist ideology" (as was done on the last thread I commented on and quite repeatedly) how about ACTUALLY GIVING IT A TRY? For the past 40 years I can tell you the Elites in Europe and USA have had just as freaking much contempt for assimilation as many people show on this blog and they've done everything in their power to avoid REQUIRING or even trying to do it.
Oh well, they say history repeats. I could care less. I'll defend mine and my own.
Clarence
The sentiment is not entirely fair, I realize, yet the mass of apolitical whites who spend their time watching televised sports or driving around in their SUVs have, partly through their own fault, been droned into a state of stupor in which their nation is rapidly being stolen from them.
ReplyDeleteI blame White Boomers mostly (not all of them) and pity the young Whites of today. My own recent experience yesterday, walking to the shops, after School was out (a rare occurrence), in my own mountain village which is probably 99% White was of:
Hordes of the hopeless, uneducated swill. Shabby, despondent, young girls dressed like sluts, young boys barging and disrespectful. They milled and swarmed. All of them the recipients of an education system willfully designed to make them disparage what little they know of their history and heritage. Fear them, fear for them, but I can't blame them. None of this was their fault. They've joined the Monopoly game well after it was started, and their birthright was long ago sold for a 'mess of potage'.
I blame those 50 to 65 year olds, well fed on their pensions and redundancy payouts. They are the bastards that threw it all away.
Another anecdote: while passing through the shopping centre's back steel door a little tacker, probably about 3 to 4 years, held the door open for his mum and then me. I went to take over for him as there was another lady coming with her shopping trolley fully loaded. The boy refused to yield and he declared in a loud voice "I am strong."
That's an alpha. He holds doors open. He's strong. Even though I praised him for his efforts I couldn't help but feel gloom for his future prospects. The pull of the tide will probably catch him too and he'll be swept along and cast adrift to join the throngs of the destitute Whites. Sundered from all that should have been his.
No doubt he'll learn to think that holding a door open means he's weak, rather than what he instinctively knows, as a proud White Man: He is strong.
And I pray that he remains so.
And you forgot to include me BTW :) - OneSTDV
ReplyDeleteBelieve it or not, I did think of you, but decided to include only real-name bloggers. (Also thought of our convertible-fancying host but I didn't want to appear the bootlicking type.)
Really BLode? Vacillating Austerian dishlickers are part of an "intellectually vibrant online political community" now are they?
ReplyDeleteThen may God save us from the intellectuals.
dearieme - Yeah. It's not like there were many good choices at the time. I can see how people who had spent the 1930s in Ukraine might decide to try a different brand of cruelty and hope it would go better.
ReplyDeleteBut really, the prisoner exchange thing isn't an excuse. The British did not have the moral right to turn those people over to Stalin. They didn't belong to him, or to England. They weren't pawns to be sold. When you start thinking they are, it's not that big a further step to conclude that your own countrymen are also - always in the name of a higher good, which we can define as European peace, or Gaia, or the end of racial differences. And so you get the multiculti invasion. There is a direct logical line linking the two.
Tell you what, before dismissing "assimilationist ideology" (as was done on the last thread I commented on and quite repeatedly) how about ACTUALLY GIVING IT A TRY?
ReplyDeleteHow about not, Clarence? Assimilation means racial destruction.
Death rattle? Come on. The guy is just trying to be all contrarian and provocative. The various "tea party" gatherings, however confused their purpose has become, are obviously a net good thing. Only a fool expects intellectual clarity in a mass movement; the goal is that by indirection it finds direction out. Remember, the coalition of angry tea partiers will still be around when things start to get really bad, its purpose free to crystallize and take a different shape.
ReplyDeleteWhat's encouraging for now is the general agreement that the ruling class is the enemy - the general sentiment in these gatherings that the elite classes are recklessly if not maliciously destroying the country for their own gain and profit (which is of course true). The biggest danger, therefore, isn't the lack of intellectual clarity in these movements, but the possibility that the parasitic elites will co-opt all this patriotic fervor and misdirect anger away from themselves towards a foreign enemy. The tea party movement is neutralized to the extent that it finds common cause with the parasitic elite.
Pat Hannagan says . . .
ReplyDeleteI blame White Boomers mostly
The oldest white boomer was 20 in 1965, when the Immigration Act was passed in the US. In 1985, the oldest boomer was 40, too young to have real power yet. By 1985, everything was baked in the cake.
No, not the boomers but their scumbag parents are to blame. It isn't George W Bush's fault, it is George H W Bush's fault. And this is if you date the collapse to 1965---I would date it earlier.
Really BLode? Vacillating Austerian dishlickers are part of an "intellectually vibrant online political community" now are they? - Pat Hannagan
ReplyDeleteI think you're too sophisticated for me. I actually don't know who you mean. I do regard Sailer and Brimelow as highbrow; the former for his love of statistics and the latter in his overall style and tone. Tancredo is different because he's a politician, but he's not a lowbrow politician anyway.
Second thought, you mean OneSTDV. I haven't noticed him vacillating and I didn't think he supported Auster that much. In any case I (rigidly and stubbornly) refuse to judge a fellow rightist based on his opinions of Headbangin' Larry and His Double-Barreled Dogma Gun.
I advise everyone else to do the same, for the little that's worth.
P.S. I also refuse to judge fellow rightists on their opinions on abortion, Israel, and theology. I've got a one-track* mind for immigration, gun control, affirmative action, prison reform, official English, and withdrawal from the south Asian wars.
* This calculation not guaranteed to be precise.
"[Beck and Palin], like so many white Americans, are too stupid to see what is in front of their eyes."
ReplyDeleteToo stupid, or too cowardly? Or in Back and Palin's respective cases, too opportunistic?
Rollory: The repeated short-sighted plays for short-term advantage with absolutely no thought to the longer-term consequences are just astounding, almost to the point of making me not regret what is happening to England now.
ReplyDeleteThe British did not have the moral right to turn those people over to Stalin. They didn't belong to him, or to England. They weren't pawns to be sold. When you start thinking they are, it's not that big a further step to conclude that your own countrymen are also - always in the name of a higher good, which we can define as European peace, or Gaia, or the end of racial differences. And so you get the multiculti invasion. There is a direct logical line linking the two.
I agree the return of Soviet and former White Russian POWs to the USSR was horrific and it is appalling few in Britain (or anywhere else) know anything about it. But I'm curious as to why you single out the UK when the US was (unless I'm greatly mistaken) every bit as much involved as the UK?
Your 2nd thought was right. Auster is one of my litmus tests. There's those with him and those against him and never the twain shall meet. That's not all with OneSTDV, there's his Shoa Business lines of demarcation along with others but, as far as I'm concerened, you can't run with the foxes and hunt with the hounds. At least not without expecting to be called out on it.
ReplyDeleteSo, on that score, I disregard your advice. With respect.
Good point Bill. I suppose those of voting age from approx 1965 to 1975 would be directly responsible for today's multicultural, "invade the world invite the world", debacle.
ReplyDeleteNot all of them of course, but it was the legislation and dismantling of our traditions throughout the West during that period that is directly the source of our dilemnas.
Not to blame but to identify the source of the fault. To accurately identify those that need a good kicking.
As I demonstrated beyond dispute on the other thread where “Clarence” appeared, an “assimilationist” policy would require a nearly totalitarian government (the only real jack boots are on Clarence’s feet). Such a regime would be run by the very “elites” that Clarence wrongly assumes are “opposed” to assimilation. Of course, the reality is that the elites are in favor of a policy, and that is the extermination of the historic peoples of the West and the culture they embody and the civilization created and sustained by that culture.
ReplyDeleteWe can already see signs of “reverse assimilation” that is supported, in part by the force of the government, having a decided affect (one of degradation) on the native peoples of the West.
And btw, there is NO SUCH THING as “assimilation” of such opposites as are being imported into the West. As best, the mixing would result in a different thing than existed before, but the most likely outcome, the one we see before us, is the replacement of the old by the new.
We can also see that America failed to assimilate many of the Ellis Island immigrants, the ethnic Catholics and Jews, the children and grandchildren of which were the leaders of the cultural revolution of the 1960s. But then, Clarence no doubt approves of the 1960s revolution, which is what he means by defending his own. Clarence appears to have a strong identity that is very much NOT that of the old stock American. Why else would he react so emotionally (certainly it isn’t an intellectual reaction) to those seeking to defend themselves and their own in the face of such aggression?
It was indeed terrible that the White Russians were sent to Stalin so that Stalin could murder them.
ReplyDeleteBut did the White Russians, as a group, support the idea of setting up gas chambers for Jews during world war two?
Put aside the number of jews killed in the gas chambers, which is in dispute.
My question is, did the average White Russian agree with the idea of sending jews to the gas chambers or not?
If White Russians eagerly supported the idea of sending Jews to the gas chambers, and volunteered for the SS, it is at least possible to understand why the British felt justified in sending the White Russians to their deaths.
I agree the return of Soviet and former White Russian POWs to the USSR was horrific and it is appalling few in Britain (or anywhere else) know anything about it.
ReplyDeleteThat's a topic which crops up here repeatedly - the "good guys" in WWII were not really all that much morally better than the "bad guys".
It's true, but it's information of limited utility to us today.
The oldest white boomer was 20 in 1965, when the Immigration Act was passed in the US. In 1985, the oldest boomer was 40, too young to have real power yet. By 1985, everything was baked in the cake.
ReplyDeleteNo, not the boomers but their scumbag parents are to blame.
Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around. But the Boomers - those born between 1946 and the early 60s - had the numbers to change the course we're on when it became clear that the left weren't merely interested in basic equality or independence in former colonies. Unlike their parents who often endured real poverty and sacrifice and were thus focused entirely on economic security the Boomers took up cultural leftism whilst living in relative comfort. They saw radical change their parents couldn't have imagined and then voted for more of it - or more likely, were too wrapped up in themselves to think about such things. They should have seen the consequences of mass immigration (along with other blights like feminism) for their children and grandchildren but they did not and I'm afraid they never will.
John Doe:
ReplyDeleteMy family came here from England in the 1630's. We settled in Scituate, Massachusetts. My family is of the "second wave" having followed only the Mayflower colonists. Ancestors on both my mother's and father's side fought for the new country in the Revolution. I'll stack my "American" background against anyone here.I don't think many of you can trace your families roots in this country back nearly 400 years.
And for your information, I just turned 39, so there goes your quaint little theory that I'm a boomer.
No, by me and mine, I mean my family and friends of whatever color. Mostly white enough to meet your approval, I'm sure.
As for your arguments in that thread I chose not to engage them, partly because I was pressed for time, and partly because quite frankly, I was surprised Dennis let me post at all. But I will say that I am not unfamiliar with them, or indeed, pretty much any of the arguments presented in that thread. See, I mostly post on MRA blogs, with a scattering here and there on others. I've been reading this blog for over a year, I've been reading VDARE and Steve Sailer for almost 11. I mostly don't poste. I read and make up my own mind.
I may not agree with you on your racial angles and the futility of trying assimilation or your rather ridiculous fear of change -white people are changing, will change, and would change in the future no matter what, and that's not counting the fact I think we are going to see biological and robotic engineering of the human geno and phenotypes in the next 50 years.
Fact is, reading that thread I felt like we should fight the freaking Civil War all over again. Except this time between "white" people. Of course it's stupid and counter-productive, esp for white males to divide our strength in such a manner- but hey, if I'm not "christian" enough for some of you, if I don't hew the correct political opinion, then I apparently am persona-non-grata in your new exclusive version of "America".
No thanks.
Clarence
My question is, did the average White Russian agree with the idea of sending jews to the gas chambers or not?
ReplyDeleteThe answer is no. Most White Russians were interested in liberating Russia and I doubt more than a handful were even aware of Jews being killed. Remember as late as 1941 some of the founders of Israel were trying to work out an agreement with Hitler's regime to join forces against the British in Palestine. So many were willing to work with the Nazis for their own ends, not just White Russians.
BTW I wonder how many average Jews killed by Hitler supported the "idea" (as you put it) of killing White Russians in the decades before WW2.
If White Russians eagerly supported the idea of sending Jews to the gas chambers, and volunteered for the SS, it is at least possible to understand why the British felt justified in sending the White Russians to their deaths.
If I'm not mistaken the agreement between the US, UK, and USSR stipulated that POWs who were citizens of each state were to be returned to that state. But most White Russians were never Soviet citizens so it makes it even worse that they were included.
The oldest white boomer was 20 in 1965, when the Immigration Act was passed in the US. In 1985, the oldest boomer was 40, too young to have real power yet. By 1985, everything was baked in the cake.
ReplyDeleteNo, not the boomers but their scumbag parents are to blame.
This guy has a point. I remember when Brokaw came out with his book, the Greatest Generation, my friends and I concluded that they were not the greatest generation because they raised the candy assed babyboomers. If that generation would have instilled the discipline and values that their parents drilled into them, we might have had a very different boomer generation.
"Severn said...
ReplyDelete""I agree the return of Soviet and former White Russian POWs to the USSR was horrific and it is appalling few in Britain (or anywhere else) know anything about it.""
That's a topic which crops up here repeatedly - the "good guys" in WWII were not really all that much morally better than the "bad guys". It's true, but it's information of limited utility to us today."
One may dispute the meaning of "much" in this context. I agree with you that the allies were not as good as they supposed themselves to be. But regardless of whether they were good guys or bad guys - they are my guys, which is why I'm for them, and not the other guys. But as you say, these disputes are of limited utility. Although we still live in the world created by the world wars and their aftermath, in many ways, that time is already ancient history, no more relevant than the punic wars. The generation of Americans who fought WWII would find America today unrecognizeable, and quite probably not worth fighting for.
"Pat Hannagan said...
ReplyDeleteI blame White Boomers mostly (not all of them) and pity the young Whites of today."
I agree, and with Bill as well about the culpability of the WWII generation before them. Even though most young people today would, if they knew what I think, point and sputter and revile me as a racist, I don't blame them. It is the duty of every generation to teach the next, and my (baby-boomer) generation and my parent's generation were derelict in that duty. We let the worst of us fill the minds of the young with the most absurd and destructive nonsense, and acted like it didn't matter. We squandered the legacy of our civilization, and bequeathed the younger generation nothing but a soulless wilderness of dreck.
Clarence,
ReplyDeleteYou sound like an illiterate. For one thing, the First Civil War WAS fought between white people. Blacks played little role in the fighting, certainly for the Northern side, which was my ancestor’s side (they did play a support role in the South). To assume as you do that those of us who don’t want to live in Mexico or China or India or Iraq are all on the side of the Old South is idiotic. If you actually encountered any of the typical Northerners of the Civil War era, including my own who were very opposed to slavery, you would consider them “Nazis” too. But the fault isn’t with them it is with your moronic Politically Correct and fashionable “opinions.” Since you don’t have any facts on your side I’d suggest you stick to assertions/“opinions” as they are much less complicated. You certainly haven’t addressed any of the points I raised at all, and you don’t even appear to have any grasp of them.
BTW, I never said you were a boomer, I was suggesting that you agreed with the 1960s revolution, which you obviously do.
Last time, I quoted Eugene McCarthy lamenting that America had become a colony of the world. Was Gene McCarthy a Nazi? How about Gaylord Nelson, a founder of the environmental movement and Wisconsin Senator, who called for strictly limiting immigration to protect the environment. Was Gaylord Nelson a Nazi? How about John Derbyshire, is he a neo-Nazi too?
And what is with the “Christian” thing? Many immigration restriction types are not Christians except in a vague ethnic cultural heritage way. I’m not religious myself, but I am a WASP. I’d guess that HBD types are almost all non-religious. The fact that you don’t understand this is another indication of your alienation from the historic identity of the country you wish to destroy.
BTW, I’m a Son of the American Revolution. I’m afraid I don’t have any of the “blue blood” of Ellis Island in my veins.
ASDF: "The hope is that all those whites will get tired of being called racists, even when they are doing their best to be inclusive, and will therefore become vehement racists. I'm not sure if I buy that."
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I don't buy it, or at least a more moderate version of it.
I think we should interpret things in an optimistic way when the evidence is ambiguous. That produces more information. For now, we have a lot of bad news, not much light and shadow. Interpreting the uncertainties as negatives gives us only a black screen.
- Daybreaker
On where it went wrong, post WWII, I think President Richard Nixon is emblematic of those who got it wrong. He was empowered by the reaction against "reforms" that were destructive and had terrible long-term implications, but he did nothing to undo the making of the demographic killing machine.
ReplyDeleteWhen the Left gains power, it goes for long term gains that will tilt the field more and more in its favor, permanently. When it does that, typically there is an electoral reaction, that shows the new status quo is not yet a consensus. Typically, the Right at a governing elite level uses this reaction to gain power and enjoy the advantages of incumbency, but without doing much to remedy the grievance that brought it to power. And in America, the energy of the elite Right flowed into foreign policy and wars. Richard Nixon was far more interested in diplomacy and rivalry with the Soviet Union than he was in undoing the Civil Rights Revolution.
It doesn't always work like that. In Australia it was the Right, under Malcolm Fraser, that brought in the multicultural revolution, and it was the Center-Left under Robert Hawke that ratified it, deliberately disdaining the electoral benefits of running against the elite-driven unwanted revolution in order to leave the masses of Whites who didn't want it nowhere to go electorally.
But on the whole, I think the Left making radical changes and the elite Right simultaneously ratifying them and exploiting White resistance is a familiar pattern.
It's a pattern that suggests a radically corrupted elite, with no qualms about forcing on the mass of Whites a phony consensus that is hostile to White interests.
- Daybreaker
The article by Edwards is well written and well articulated. However I don't agree with him. I think people on the alternative right expect too much too fast. The people that read this blog have an advanced level of understanding of the problems we face, in contrast the people at the Glen Beck rally are clueless, but they realize something is seriously wrong. I think Glen Beck is a huckster (or at best seriously confused), but his MLK worshipping may actually be productive in the end. He and his followers have bought into the MLK myth so thoroughly that the end result may be to render it harmless by making it so universal therefore depriving it of any substance. If his MLK worship was really the end of conservatism then how come people on the far left are so unhinged about it? I thought that big fat greaseball Al Sharpton was going to have a coronary at the pathetic counter demonstration. He knows his symbol and his supposed moral high ground are being stolen right out from under him. The hostile media are also doing all they can to undermine the event. If you had told me three years ago that middle class white people would be out protesting in the hundreds of thousands I wouldn't have believed it. You have people talking about ending social welfare and even secession. I think we need to start appreciating progress that has been made and quit seeing the glass as always half empty.
ReplyDeleteI forgot one very current example, that being Senator Harry Reid of Nevada. In 1993, Senator Reid called for reducing immigration to a limit of 300,000 per year (about 1,000,000 less than the current level) and called for eliminating “birth right citizenship.” Is Harry Reid, the Democratic Senate Majority Leader, a Neo-Nazi?
ReplyDeleteIf someone really believes in “assimilation”, they would support restricting immigration, because without limiting immigration there is no possibility that immigrants will be forced to adapt to existing local cultures. Mass immigration is by its very nature, destructive of the modern nation state, which depends on linguistic and cultural homogeneity. The alternative, the Tower of Babel model, is not “progress” but a return to a primitive pre-modern era, with the difference that contemporary elites step in to “manage” the disastrous affects of “diversity”, thereby accruing more and more power. The “experts” leverage immigrant “diversity” to transform what was a free civil society into a bureaucratic authoritarian or totalitarian nightmare, with politically correct thought police more like East Germany’s “lives of others” then anything like a republican or democratic individualist system.
"But I'm curious as to why you single out the UK when the US was (unless I'm greatly mistaken) every bit as much involved as the UK?"
ReplyDeleteBecause the British examples are the ones I happen to have been coming across. I have no reason to dispute the idea that the USA has done things just as bad and possibly worse.
Matt G: You have a good point about MLK worship and the notion that Beck is neutralizing it, as well as that we should look on the bright side. What bothers me so much is the load of patent nonsense, globaloney, and New Age guff - "church, synagogue, or mosque" - that Beck and Palin spout. What was this demonstration even about? I think anyone with any critical faculties really has to wonder when he sees some of the nonsensical things Beck and Palin said, a retread of compassionate conservatism crossed with Oprah.
ReplyDeleteIt could have been so much better.
I was at the Beck rally and this author's observations are precisely on target. It was a colossal wasted opportunity, an exercise in impotence and PC cant.
ReplyDeleteClarence wrote: I may not agree with you on your racial angles and the futility of trying assimilation or your rather ridiculous fear of change....
ReplyDeleteScene: Russia, 1917. The Bolsheviks are storming the Winter Palace.
Guy Who Owns a Business: I don't like the look of this...these Communists are against private ownership of property. This looks like it could be a recipe for poverty and oppression.
Clarence: Oh, you and your ridiculous fear of change!
Scene: Somewhere in Germany, 1937.
Jewish guy: I don't like the looks of things...they're smashing the windows of Jewish shopowners and calling us "untermenschen"...this looks like a recipe for poverty, oppression, and the end of our people....
Clarence: Oh, you and your ridiculous fear of change. Change happens! Quit fighting it!
Scene: A shoreline in Mexico, 1519. Cortez is landing.
Aztec guy: I don't like the looks of these Spaniards. I think they intend to conquer us and plunder our wealth and wipe out our way of life.
Clarence: Geez, it's just change! What a ridiculous cowardly hysteric you are!
MnMark:
ReplyDeleteHey, even if critical of me, your comment was funny.
Of course not all change is to the good, the point is change will happen for good or ill. Nothing stays static in this world, not genotypes, phenotypes, political orders, or countries.
Weep for what was or what is if you want, but I will advise you to not weep for what might be. There are tons of interacting variables here besides birthrate and political polling.
Clarence
You are making a mistake in assuming is in any way genuine. Beck has no scruple whatsoever for truth. He is simply an agent who is charged with neutralizing conservative dissent by funneling it into Sarah Palin and more neo-con business as usual. That's it. He says what he has to say to accomplish this.
ReplyDeleteJohn Doe:
ReplyDeleteI wasn't aware the Civil War was over White Identity. I mean I've heard the "Constitutional Sovereignity", Taxes, and Slavery arguments. I'll have to be sure to update my Bruce Catton with some new readings, I suppose.
As for the rest of your screed, I could care less if you are pink with purple polka dots and have a distinguished lineage on Mars. I would never judge you, nor your arguments on where you came from unless they were obviously self-serving, and they aren't.
You've also made a whole bunch of assumptions. For one thing, not only do I support closing the borders for the illegals, but I very much AM in favor of immigration restrictions on legal aliens. Fact is, we need highly educated types, not any dregs from a list of "approved countries" that is currently predominately non-european anyway.
And perhaps you might want to read the rest of that thread wherein at least a few commenters made it plain that to THEM the very idea that the US could survive without a predominately WASP culture seems preposterous.
No, I don't want to live in Mexico. But I also don't want to live in a place where ones individual merits count for less than someones religion, family, or skin color. Things will always be meriotacracy for me.
Clarence
"I blame those 50 to 65 year olds, well fed on their pensions and redundancy payouts. They are the bastards that threw it all away."
ReplyDeleteIt's traitorous. They are the same people who used to lecture us when we were young about conservative values, and now they are almost wholly dependent upon government checks. It's disgusting. And these "conservatives" now insist that they earned all their regular monthly government payouts. They want war, war, war, for the good of the economy, dontchaknow. Their children and grandchildren marry Mexicans, Asians, and blacks and they say nothing at all. They get to retire on my money, whereas there will be no way we could ever retire. Now they golf, vacation, and go to the casinos. Selfish jackasses.
"and that's not counting the fact I think we are going to see biological and robotic engineering of the human geno and phenotypes in the next 50 years.'
ReplyDeleteWhat a ridiculously over-the-top display of extrapolating trends to infinity.
Dude, robotics and biological engineering innovation requires ingenuity and inventiveness, which requires intelligence AND independent thinking, all traits found mostly in White people, AS WELL AS a civilization that supports and desires such things (rather than resents and smashes them). In White societies, you find the above.
Amongst non-Whites, eh, not so much.
Since Whites are 9% of world-wide population and falling, it's far more likely, rather than the robotics and biological technological revolution you're anticipating, that the world's human population will sink back into its natural state, red of tooth and claw, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.
Oops, I forgot.
ReplyDeleteWhere I said resents and smashes, I should have added, or simply too dull-witted to keep them going.
"No, I don't want to live in Mexico. But I also don't want to live in a place where ones individual merits count for less than someones religion, family, or skin color. Things will always be meriotacracy for me."
ReplyDeletePoor, silly Clarence. He wants to import people with high IQs irrespective of religion, family or skin color.
Conclusion? He wants East Asians. If he only wanted Whites, then he'd care about skin color.
But the very East Asians he wants are THEMSELVES concerned about family and skin color -- their own. They want to, as soon as they've got the numbers to do so, import and promote more of their own.
So for you, Clarence, for whom, "Things will always be meriotacracy for me," that's a nice sentiment. But the meritous of the rest of the world don't share your feelings and can be expected to quickly relieve YOU of your own meritocratic standing as soon as they get the chance. So no, under your plan things WON'T always be a meritocracy for you.
Either you have White-run societies with quasi-meritocracy among ourselves, or you go full-on whole-world meritocratic and quickly lose any semblance of such an idea.
Just Shoot Me:
ReplyDeleteThat's the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard against technological progress.
Forget for the moment that the Chinese are already interested in this stuff.
You seem to imagine you need LOTS of educated people in order to do this.
Hell, no - most of the necessary breakthroughs have already been made.They now HAVE first generation thought controlled bionic arms as just one example.
I'm afraid that if the IQ of the populace as a whole were to drop 20 points over the next twenty years, it would make absolutely no difference.
All you need is very few smart people, and the Bell Curve itself practically assures you will get them. And the pre-existing analytical and physical infrastructure is impressive.
So no, arguments that basically boil down to : we'll be at the idiocracy stage before any of this becomes possible aren't very impressive or very likely. If you want to argue that, you might as well argue Peak Oil and assume a Mad Max style future.
Clarence
I'm with you, Rusty Mason, on the guilty being the "I earned it, they owe me" crowd of 65+ years old who live off of entitlements and benignly look upon the miscegenation of their descendants. When my husband and I took our last real vacation in 1993, we were the only ones of child-bearing age at any of the hotels we stayed at - all the rest were blue hairs.
ReplyDeleteDennis - excellent bon mot: "Compassionate conservatism crossed with Oprah." I'm going to share that! Cheers.
Scene: Eastern coast of North America, mid-1600s. A group of Indians is dicussing the growing influx of whites.
ReplyDeleteIndian guy: More and more whites are coming, colonizing our territory. We are pushed off of lands that were ours. The more of them that arrive, the less interested they are in living in our ancient ways. There are many more where those came from. If this keeps up we could find ourselves strangers in our own land, or even vanish as a people.
Clarence: It's just change. Stop with the ridiculous fear!
Indian guy: It's not ridiculous fear. It's prudence. Bad things happen to tribes whose land is taken from them.
Clarence: Of course not all change is to the good, the point is change will happen for good or ill. Nothing stays static in this world...Weep for what was or what is if you want, but I will advise you to not weep for what might be.
Indian guy: So, just sit here and take it, is what you suggest, huh?
Another liberal Indian: Look, those puritans are only coming here to improve their lives! And aren't we all immigrants? Our tribe used to live further towards the land of the setting sun before we came here.
Indian guy: Yeah, and we took the land from that weaker tribe that WAS here, and now they're gone...how'd that work out for them? And the whites can "improve their lives" back in their own lands. That's not our problem. Look, I'll leave you and Clarence to sit here and sing Kumbaya and moon about how destiny is destiny - I'm going to talk to the Powhatans, Rappahannocks, Iroquois, Algonquins, Narragansett, Wampanoags, and Pequot and get a nice big combined force of warriors together and tell those whites that they are welcome to sail to our shores to trade, but not to colonize and settle and make lives here. This is our land. They have theirs. If we take firm action now we may be able to do something about this. And even if it is too late, we will work our best to shape destiny rather than passively sit and let it happen to us.
"Forget for the moment that the Chinese are already interested in this stuff."
ReplyDeleteShrug. Have they got the creativity to come up with it? Can't find my link but there's a Chinese-American professor who says not.
What YOU forget, Clarence, is that, while the Bell Curve assures high-IQ people will exist, if there are too many of the dullwitted, then the smashing starts, rendering the smarties impotent.
Hard to do cutting-edge science in well-supplied labs or run high-tech factories when the mob is lobbing Molotov cocktails at you or the totalitarian narcostate-warlord gov't doesn't WANT you to have the freedom to play around with such "dangerous stuff," (i.e., cutting into their percentage,) and cuts your head off for trying.
I do, in fact, argue Peak Oil. Why the hell else would BP be plopping drilling platforms in hurricane -prone, 5000-foot-deep waters and then drilling down another 30,000 feet if there was abundant, easy-to-pump, cheap onshore oil readily available?
Mad Max IS our future when the Mexicans outnumber us, as we see currently playing out in Juarez.
If China takes over, the Chinese will move in en masse, and being ethnocentric, ain't too likely to worry themselves overmuch about providing YOU with YOUR Transhumanist bioengineering implants.
"I'm afraid that if the IQ of the populace as a whole were to drop 20 points over the next twenty years, it would make absolutely no difference"
ReplyDeleteYou're "afraid" it would make no difference? I'd think you'd be "hopeful" it will make no difference.
Me, I am afraid if the IQ of the populace as a whole were to drop 20 points over the next twenty years, it would make absolutely all the difference in the world. And I'm afraid it will be a difference that my kids (IQ 140) won't like a bit.
I'd be afraid for your kids, too, but I'm betting you haven't got any.
Despite the usual efforts on our part to meander far afield, the original disquisition by James Edwards, supplemented by Dennis's usual wisdom, provides a sound portrait of the problem we have with superficial but very popular celebrities like Beck and Palin.
ReplyDeleteThe Beck rally was pure revival emotionalism. Such theater will not carry far but the Tea Party does have a fairly solid base upon which the next election may be won. While these various alienated hordes mix and move forward in diverse streams, the common cause is removal of Obama, socialism, and much of the Leftist agenda.While sounding negativistic, it can be readily modulated by elite thinkers like Kreuthammer, Derbyshire, Brimelow, Malkin, Styne, etc.
I remain hopeful but the comment by Dennis about apolitical, dumb ordinary Americans cannot be overemphasized. The great mass of ordinary whites have absorbed the egalitarian siren's song from the MSM and now respond to Beck and Palin with nary a brain cell operating to think critically. Mencken called the South profoundly dumb but today that ignorance-in the era of college entrance bonanzas- is far more widespread as Americans exhibit vast stupidity and vulgarity even as they tatoo themselves into the pigsty mudbath of mass entertainment hypnosis.
Awakening these mindless masses will take more than a Glenn Beck. Since many probably can't find the voting booth, it may not matter anyway, but the bulk of the millions who chose Obama did manage, with proper directions from ACORN and others, to locate it.Hopefully the economy may help them open one eye to the crisis we are in and make the difference in November.
No, I don't want to live in Mexico. But I also don't want to live in a place where ones individual merits count for less than someones religion, family, or skin color. Things will always be meriotacracy for me.
ReplyDeleteEvery society is a meritocracy. Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, medieval France, Islamic Turkey - all believed in the notion of merit. It is impossible to conceive of a human society organized on any other grounds.
But the understanding of which qualities should be seen as meritorious varies from place to place and time to time. It's a conceit of the modern West that IQ, of all things, should be seen as exceptionally meritorious.
And it is not a conceit which the modern West ever gives more than lip service to. The people calling the shots in our countries are not notable for their intelligence. In fact its hard not to conclude that the US Senate is occupied by one hundred of the dumbest people in America.
However, I cannot, like Mr Mangan, blame the great mass of average French or German people who let this happen by constantly reelecting the same people since fifty years. The amount of propaganda they've been subjected to at school or through the media since their youngest age is truly astonishing, extremely well conceived and perfectly executed ; our present masters have truly mastered the art of subtly directing one's feelings and thoughts.
ReplyDeleteMost whites have antiquated ideas about the power of the media. Probably comes from drinking the liberal Kool-Aid about self-authorship.
The fact is, it works better than bullets. If an elite sells its people down the river and gives the media carte blanche as ours has, any people can be destroyed as ours is, given enough time.
It's hard not to blame whites, though, because for whatever reason, we can see through the media power, and they can't. So I understand the frustration. Ethnopatriotism is definitely a short track to taking humanity down off a pedestal.
John Doe:
ReplyDeleteMy family came here from England in the 1630's. We settled in Scituate, Massachusetts. My family is of the "second wave" having followed only the Mayflower colonists. Ancestors on both my mother's and father's side fought for the new country in the Revolution. I'll stack my "American" background against anyone here.I don't think many of you can trace your families roots in this country back nearly 400 years.
Add "presumptuous" to your list of faults. My family goes back to that second wave as well, long before the Republic.
You were saying?
This guy has a point. I remember when Brokaw came out with his book, the Greatest Generation, my friends and I concluded that they were not the greatest generation because they raised the candy assed babyboomers. If that generation would have instilled the discipline and values that their parents drilled into them, we might have had a very different boomer generation.
ReplyDeleteBINGO! Americans looooove to wax vainglorious about the "greatest generation." I shit on the "greatest generation" from a great height; they were the last generation that should have known better, and many of their supposed glories, I see as villainies.
Of course not all change is to the good, the point is change will happen for good or ill. Nothing stays static in this world, not genotypes, phenotypes, political orders, or countries.
ReplyDeleteYou call that a point?
As for the rest of your screed, I could care less if you are pink with purple polka dots and have a distinguished lineage on Mars. I would never judge you, nor your arguments on where you came from unless they were obviously self-serving, and they aren't.
ReplyDeleteSo you just cynically brought up your Martian lineage because, say, you're a cynical douchebag?
No, I don't want to live in Mexico. But I also don't want to live in a place where ones individual merits count for less than someones religion, family, or skin color. Things will always be meriotacracy for me.
Nothing like a false dilemma to throw light on the discussion.
Change:
ReplyDelete"Tzeentch is a God of Chaos who represents the vitality and volatility of change. Tzeentch is closely associated with sorcery and magic, as well as dynamic mutation, and grand, convoluted scheming.
The Maze of Tzeentch is Tzeentch's realm within the warp. ... Its glittering corridors reflect not only light but also hope, misery, dreams and nightmares. The labyrinth does not merely reflect but also distorts, pulling apart hope and purpose turning them into insanity and despair."
- http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tzeentch
LOL, that door-holding thing is hilarious. Some people have too much time on their hands. I hold the door for people all the time, it's how I was raised.
ReplyDeleteThe Roissy cult need to realize they're seeing the world through the lens of an Internet cult.
And, while I'm drawing that sort of parallel, San Francisco is pretty much consecrated to Slaanesh, with Andrew Sullivan being his/her high priest on the east coast. The islamic world is given over entirely to Khorne. The environuts are all for Nurgle - less human life is their first and highest priority.
ReplyDeleteBut Tzeentch really is the dominant deity in the civilized world right now.
Still laughing about the "betas hold doors" gayness. Yeah, is it beta when I pointedly say "you're welcome" to the low class turds who don't say thank you?
ReplyDeleteScott wrote about the Tea Party:
ReplyDelete... the goal is that by indirection it finds direction out. ... its purpose free to crystallize and take a different shape.
Huh? What the hell does this mean? So, right to the bitter end you are going to enfold yourself in hopeful fantasies? Edwards is so on-target, it's downright terrifying. I've read some of his stuff, and even listened to a broadcast or two, but had no idea that he could see around corners as well as he does.
The tea party movement is neutralized to the extent that it finds common cause with the parasitic elite.
Again - What? Huh?
Bill wrote:
No, not the boomers but their scumbag parents are to blame. It isn't George W Bush's fault, it is George H W Bush's fault.
You've got it right!
Matt G wrote:
ReplyDeleteHe and his followers have bought into the MLK myth so thoroughly that the end result may be to render it harmless by making it so universal therefore depriving it of any substance.
How does that work? My Lord, the fantasies are flying fast and furious! What the Beckians are doing is embedding the worship of King and the consequences of the civil rights movement even deeper, and sending further misguided signals to white youth, as well as to all other youth. Render it harmless?
If his MLK worship was really the end of conservatism then how come people on the far left are so unhinged about it?
They're not at all unhinged. They're too busy laughing at the fools and planning ways to use this clear demonstration of right wing nuts admitting that the Left was right, after all.
If you had told me three years ago that middle class white people would be out protesting in the hundreds of thousands I wouldn't have believed it.
Yes, this is a hoot, isn't it? That, of all the things they should take to the streets for, it's for the worship of a fraudulent black preacher who's been granted a national holiday by a previous generation of cowardly whites. You're right. Who would have believed it?
" My family goes back to that second wave as well, long before the Republic."
ReplyDeleteFunnily enough, mine too.
I wouldn't say it's the death rattle of mainstream conservatism. Eventually we'll find that there is a left-ExtremeHardLeft party and a right-ExtremeHardLeft party, and the right-ExtremeHardLeft party will be called "Mainstream Conservatism."
ReplyDeleteWhat happened was the sound of the Mainstream Conservatives taking a few giant steps further away from us, with a load "hip hip hooray!"
Clarence, you are clearly flailing as of your 9:14 comment. Why don't you demonstrate your merit and actually address just shoot me's preceding point, viz., that you want to import meritorious people who do not, as a matter of fact, share your cultural notions of color-blind meritocracy, and who will therefore in short order undermine your silly claim that "things will always be meritocracy for me". (Apparently everything else changes, but Clarence's particular cultural values are God's own eternal preferences and will continue to set the agenda forever.)
ReplyDeleteI don't think you can, because I usually find that people who prance about mewling vacuous pseudo-profundities like "of course not all change is to the good, the point is change will happen for good or ill. Nothing stays static in this world, blabitty blah blah", and who evade concrete questions with glorious-world-of-the-future boilerplate, are not very bright. That, or they're very young.
Come on, prove me wrong.
Clarence,
ReplyDeleteWe already live in a society where skin color, religion etc. count for more then merit. If you have any doubt about that, just recall that the First Lady is a Harvard Law and Princeton graduate. Did you read her Princeton thesis?
Derbyshire notes that just about any business, school or government agency has a “diversity” manger, with a large staff and budget. Does that sound like a society based on “merit” absent concerns with skin color, religion, national origin etc.? Yea, right.
Victoria: if you don't understand me, the fault is not necessarily mine. Edwards is sensational and hyperbolic. He writes:
ReplyDeletePalin was asked what Martin Luther King would’ve thought of the rally... She could’ve said something like: “Martin Luther King? I’m white – why would I give a damn what Martin Luther King would’ve thought about this rally?
Right. I've learned to mistrust these types who insist on purity at the expense of the practical. Back on earth, any mass movement will always be somewhat confused, especially at its inception. The flaws of Beck's message should be pointed out, but hundreds of thousands of Whites (the heretofore "silent majority") finally waking up to the idea that this aint America anymore, that the ruling class cannot be trusted, actually forming networks, traveling to rallies in the hundreds of thousands, getting (and giving others) a sense of their power, habituating themselves to taking action vs. watching tv or bitching in private -- it's net a good thing. Purpose is fluid; I hope I don't need to give you examples of groups and institutions that were ostensibly created for one purpose but eventually took on another. Cf Nietzsche: what causes a particular thing to arise and the final utility of that thing, its actual use and arrangement ... are separate toto coelo
The tea party movement is neutralized to the extent that it finds common cause with the parasitic elite.
ReplyDeleteAgain - What? Huh?
When we attack Iran, Obama's approval rating is at 70%, and these rallies become anti-pacifist "support our troops" "America, F#ck yeah!" demonstrations, maybe you won't be so confused.
As long as a coalition agrees on the enemy, it's valuable, no matter how confused its members.
@Victoria
ReplyDeleteScott gave an excellent response so I'll try to keep mine short. First of all you need to lay off the snark. This blog is a sounding board of ideas and I was just throwing one out there. I admit it may be out to left field but if you disagree with it then politely say so and state your arguement as to why. I'll stand by my earlier statement. MLK is getting to be on the same level as Santa Claus. Although St. Nicholas is an important saint he has become so univeralized that he has been co opted by all types of non-christians and secularlists to the point that most people are more familiar with the myth than the reality. MLK has been so univeralized that people on the mainstream right are claiming him as one of their own and attributing conservative principals to him that he never held. Most people know him as a kindly reverend who wanted all the children of the world to live in peace. Their understanding doesn't go any deeper than that.
The goal of subversives is to scare the mainstream. If you want to make subversives angry there is no better way then to have middle class white people claim their symbols. Then they are no longer cool and the subversives seek out a new symbol. My prediction is that the MLK legend is at its zenith and will slowly fade over time.
The sentiment that hit me was that I lost all respect for white people for allowing this to happen. The sentiment is not entirely fair, I realize, yet the mass of apolitical whites who spend their time watching televised sports or driving around in their SUVs have, partly through their own fault, been droned into a state of stupor in which their nation is rapidly being stolen from them. Beck and Palin's rally has done nothing to dissuade me from that feeling. They, like so many white Americans, are too stupid to see what is in front of their eyes.
ReplyDeleteWell, you don't know what they really think. I bet if you asked them, and they trusted you enough to give you an honest answer, they would tell you they agree, the situation sucks. But they are "apolitical" because they feel there is nothing effective they can do about it. And how are you better than them? You see the nation being stolen from you - but what are you doing about it? You, like them, are driving around in your shiny new Mercedes, allowing it to happen.
This will be combined post to answer several of you at once.
ReplyDeleteI'm not going to answer any of you individually since several of you have made the same points.
But first I will state this: As I said, I'm not new to this stuff, so if you disagree and wish to formulate an argument against me , please don't assume I need any HBD 101, ok?
A.I brought up my family history to show that my family doesn't have any of the characteristics that so many here assign to the later waves of immigrants.
B. Constructing straw men out of people's arguments is just so very easy. No, I don't believe and have NEVER believed that any country is out for anything other than its own self -interests. Same with racial groupings though there are plenty of individual exceptions. So any argument against me that assumes that I count on any help or goodwill among other countries or religions is fallacious.
C. "Peak Oil" is more properly a theory of consumption graphs -there will come a time when a given resource's extraction rate maxes out and then declines.
No one with any knowledge of science can deny peak oil, the whole argument is over when it will occur or if it has already occured and if so, do we have enough time to shift our energy and economy away from this dependence.
I'm not interested in arguing this, but my opinion is yes we have the time, and thus I will refuse to credit any argument against any of my positions which predisposes for want of a better term, a "mad max" future.
...continued next
D. Given C, above, it's obvious that technological progress is not going to regress any time soon and FURTHERMORE given that the elites will do what is militarily/economically advantageous to them regardless of what other parts of the economy they must cannabalize in order to do so, it is nearly 100 percent certainty that mass scale human genetic modifications and/or cybernetic augmentations will take place almost certainly within the next 50 years.
ReplyDeleteAnd given that, worrying about a 'white' race becomes silly.
One should instead, worry more about what kind of government one will have making these choices about the human genome.
E. Currently white males esp are demonized in this society. Poor, working class, and middle class white males are confused with the upper classes and given the blame for any remaining structural inequalities that MAY exist, while the elites basically through affirmative action and other program force them to pay for the sins of the past.
I will never argue against white self-defense. And I certainly believe people have the right to associate with whomever they want, and exclude those that don't "fit in".
F: Most of what has already happened is now at the irreversible stage. This is because so many institutions, individuals, laws, and cultural mores support it, and demographics demands it. The US is not ever going to be 90 percent white again, even if one imagines that to be a good thing. Now we might have some Civil Wars and break up into various countries or perhaps everything will fall apart and the Dictatorship of Clarence. But the current established order is much different than it was even 30 years ago, and while the future can not be predicted with 100 percent certainty it's rather obvious that if things hold together more or less the USA won't be recognizable culturally in 20 years. This isn't necessarily a good thing, indeed I think it is mostly bad, but there is absolutely nothing I, or any of you can do about it, at least under the currently established order. In a way that is a good thing: I suspect I'd be far more humane and "civilized" about it than many of you would be, and so I'm glad none of us have any power to affect change at current. What whites COULD do if we *as a collective* wanted was push back on any kind of "active discrimination" against us. And yes, even given the population trends there will still be enough of us in 20 years to bring this country down to the ground, so I'm afraid concentration camps aren't coming any time soon.
..3rd and last response below
F: Most of what has already happened is now at the irreversible stage. This is because so many institutions, individuals, laws, and cultural mores support it, and demographics demands it. The US is not ever going to be 90 percent white again, even if one imagines that to be a good thing. Now we might have some Civil Wars and break up into various countries or perhaps everything will fall apart and the Dictatorship of Clarence. The current change isn't necessarily a good thing, indeed I think it is mostly bad, but there is absolutely nothing I, or any of you can do about it, at least under the currently established order. In a way that is a good thing: I suspect I'd be far more humane and "civilized" about it than many of you would be, and so I'm glad none of us have any power to affect change at current. What whites COULD do if we *as a collective* wanted was push back on any kind of "active discrimination" against us. And yes, even given the population trends there will still be enough of us in 20 years to bring this country down to the ground, so I'm afraid concentration camps aren't coming any time soon.
ReplyDeleteG: Diversity as currently practiced isn't really "diverse" and is often merely reverse racism. Oh, some of you agree with me on this? Good, because it gets a big "duh" from me.
H: My point about IQ was totally misconstrued.
Of course "average" IQ will have economic and social effects (of course I view the likelihood of IQ dropping by 20 points in 20 years as not very likely, but I was making a point) but my contention as it won't stop genetic engineering one whit. That's inevitable, because the people making breakthroughs in it right now are:
1. Not mostly geniuses of the Einstein level, and so much easier to train and replace
2. Likely to be alive in 20 years - Many are rather young
3. The benefits from a military and economic standpoint are of such potential that only a retarded ruler would fail to get behind the research
4. There's lot of automation of things that use to require extensive analytical capabilities, and this is currently being applied to genetic screening and genetic mapping
5. We already know how to do it and how to do cybernetics to a limited extent
I. I agree with about 70 percent of the stuff Mangan says on this site, and only about 1/3 of the stuff I disagree with is vehement disagreement. But like I said, I don't think that's just good enough for some of you. Insofar as changing my personal philosophy to suit the tastes of some here, my answer is no.
One last thing: Failing to take technological change into any of your models is a failure of analysis. I'd like to see some of your philosophies take transhumanism into account. If you can't, you don't have a leg to stand on when predicting the future.
Clarence
Dennis,
ReplyDeletePlease indulge me in one more post to Clarence.
Clarence, you dismiss the idea that Peak Oil will lead to a Mad Max society, but you assume as a given that transhumanism will come to pass.
Which I find curious. The people who are familiar with the ideas of the futurists tend to be people who like to read science fiction.
Did you never read Asimov's Nightfall? Now, true, Nightfall is about the suns setting and Peak Oil is about the lights going out, but it's a great exploration of what happens when people are scared and freezing in the dark.
*I* say technological, advanced society is far more fragile, far less robust, far more dependent on WHO the people are, and its continued progress far less assured than you do.
Maybe it's because I read the quintessential science fiction story when I was ten, and you didn't.
Just Shoot Me:
ReplyDeleteI've already said I will not be responding to arguments about Peak Oil.
Fact is, you know very little about me. You don't know what science fiction I've read or even if I read science fiction. You also don't know where I got my information on Peak Oil theory or why I feel the evidence points the way I think it does. You have no idea whether I have a science degree, or what my technical reasons are for being willing to bet my life on transhumanism even IF Mad Max was to come, etc.
I will say that I've read pretty much every science fiction story Asimov has ever written, most of his sci-fi books, and four of his non-fiction ones. I will also say I have a degree in the sciences.
In short, don't make assumptions about someone you don't know. Either critique the parts of my argument that don't deal with transhumanism, or don't engage with me as we have nothing of any use to say to each other.
Clarence
Tell you what, before dismissing "assimilationist ideology" (as was done on the last thread I commented on and quite repeatedly) how about ACTUALLY GIVING IT A TRY?
ReplyDeleteHow about not, Clarence? Assimilation means racial destruction.
I disagree with this to an extent. It is true that the only way to keep the different ethnies distinct would have resulted in different nation states here on this North American land mass. There'd have been a sort of New Germany, New Italy, New Ireland, etc, etc. But practically from the start, acknowledging that England provided the majority of Americans, there were many different Euro ethnics here in the states.
To the extent that the various Euros adopted English and lost their folkways, I think that we had to a large extent become a new ethny, the hybrid American white. It worked; most American whites simply identified as white, especially since the majority at this point are in fact hybrid whites. As long as the melting pot consisted if Europeans, they were genetically close enough for that to have been a successful endeavor, and I don't regard that as racial suicide (ethnic perhaps, but not racial). The new American white was in many or most respects preeminent by 1960.
The melting pot is an utter failure if including other races. Then, that truly is racial suicide.
When the Left gains power, it goes for long term gains that will tilt the field more and more in its favor, permanently.
ReplyDeleteWell then, with regard to demographics. the left has been too clever by half, because the demographic changes they have ushered in will result in something other than democracy with their new Mestizo overlords, so their gain is not permanent. All they need do is look at many latin American countries to see how this will end up. They sold out their progeny for at most a few decades of power.
Clarence,
ReplyDeleteYour belief in a transhuman future is overly optimistic. Genetic studies are still so rudimentary and our understanding of the human genome so facile that we are looking down a very long scope towards a future of easily accessible and reliable genetic manipulation in humans.
Your view of the technological aspects of our society are also pretty far off. What paradigm shifting major breakthroughs have occured in science in the past 50 years? Our (the entire civilized world's) progress has stagnated significantly. We now tweak, and tamper, and improve, but rarely discover. Certainly nothing that changes the human condition as did antibiotics.
The view of the future I have for gene therapy is that it will be used to cure male pattern baldness and erectile dysfunction. The companies that engineered this technology will be successful in getting the government to prosecute anyone doing anything with the human genome other than frivolity, due to some claims of copyright infringement. Even these frivolities will be prohibitively expensive for most people.
I also don't think an ever shrinking minority of geniuses can service an ever expanding society of morons. I think there is an equilibrium in the ratio of geniuses to average intelligence population for that mental prowess to be harnessed by those of lesser faculties. That is, if you have a vast majority of idiots, and their leaders are likewise idiotic you won't have a consensus among the elite as to what to do with the rarely occurring geniuses. Or even understand what it is they are dealing with for that matter.
We, as a society, put stock in the hard sciences. That is something that is slipping away and the heights of academic and intellectual achievement are Liberal Arts. We are talking about Title IX being invoked in hard science and math fields, meaning we care more about our Liberal Arts-derived diversity ethics than human progress via technological advancement right now. You are looking at a coming society where the stewards are ready to let the institutions that train our engineers, scientists, et cetera completely decay because they are of limited value to them. You already see these fields becoming predominantly filled with foreigners, which means even the elites inherent ethnic interests are not invoked. They know of no one in these fields personally, have not trained in them, and are uninterested in seeing their children grow up to become mathmeticians, material scientists, or medical researchers. You'll notice we aren't importing Lawyers from India however.
K:
ReplyDeleteI thank you for a thoughtful and respectful reply.
However I do not agree, and for the following reasons:
1. One doesn't need geniuses in order for this to happen. The mathematical theory behind much of the analysis of this stuff is already automated, and many of the discoveries in biotech and related fields are done by average researchers and even some techs.
2. I didn't say "we" would do it, though I really don't see why not. I said it would be done by some one or the other.
This sort of resaearch does not need the resources either physical or monetary of many fields such as high energy particle physics. It doesn't need the level of mathematical expertise either. All it really needs are one or two well- stocked biological laboratories, a little bit of time, and a total unwillingness to care about ethical protocols when using human subjects. Total cost? Perhaps a few billion dollars. Total time? Ten to 20 years max. It would be foolish to think that some country or military dictator -esp in a more violiatle future wouldn't be willing to push this. It takes a fraction of the resources of your normal war program and the payoffs would be tremendous.
3. I wonder when the last time you took genetics was? We can now do DNA analysis in a matter of hours that took weeks or months before, and new technologies for far faster extraction and processing of genetic data (far faster meaning tens, hundreds or even thousands of times as fast as previous methods) seem to come out every few years.
4. I think your confusion about science stems from a mixing up of science and technology. Alot of great stuff has come out of science: recently they found that certain neutrinos exhibit behavior that seems to violate the so-called Standard Model of particle physics. Dark matter and dark energy are only known phenomena since the 1990's. And those are just two examples of things in physics, needless to say many other things have been discovered and caused their own revolutions in other fields, many new roles of RNA being only one example in biology.
But because of things such as the FDA, EPA, OSHA, and a whole host of other governmental agencies and the fact that much drug funding is done in the private sector it is true that except in laboratories world wide (where new instrumentation seems a common occurance) little of this has trickled into the wider economy or consciousness. Sure the military has unmanned planes, almost totally integrated communications, hypersonic jets using ram-jet engines, stealth aircraft and all sorts of neat toys but to the average person the only thing they notice is a few small robots to do simple chores and a much wider variety of far more powerful computerized gadgets.
But this isn't the fault of the scientists, it's the fault of the larger society that tends to put things in the way of innovations actually getting out into the real world unless they happen to have military implications. Of course I needn't mention yet again that genetic engineering and cyber enhancements have such utility, now do I?
Clarence
Rollory, the Brits were against my country becoming independent from the Ottomans, so what do you expect from them? lol
ReplyDeleteDennis, Richard Spencer's(I think) article on AltRight on Glenn Beck's insanity was pure gold.
ReplyDelete3. I wonder when the last time you took genetics was? We can now do DNA analysis in a matter of hours that took weeks or months before, and new technologies for far faster extraction and processing of genetic data (far faster meaning tens, hundreds or even thousands of times as fast as previous methods) seem to come out every few years.
Yeah. The key to life in the hands of jack**** who think creating glowing cats is "way cool".
What's the over-under on the first engineered... accidentally or intentionally, or some combination of the two.... plague killing 10 million or more people?