IQ and Depression
A recent disturbing article in The New Yorker (not online) detailed the story of a "profoundly gifted", i.e. extremely high IQ, teenage boy in Nebraska who killed himself with a gunshot to the head. The parents and just about everyone involved with the boy had no good explanation for it. The parents assert, convincingly according to the article, that they didn't push their son, but allowed him to grow in development and education at his own pace. The upshot of the article is that high IQ is, or can be, maladaptive, and can lead to depression and ultimately suicide.
A useful corrective can be found here (PDF), in an abstract of the conference of The International Society for Intelligence Research. The abstract, entitled "Intelligence May Buffer the Depressogenic Effects of Social Stress in Adolescents", says the following:
Several studies show a negative correlation between intelligence and depression, but it is not clear why. We present evidence that intelligence may buffer the depressogenic effects of stressful life events, which are thought to be causes of depression. We used an epidemiological sample of adolescent twins (526 males, 572 females) living in Virginia for which we had data on depression, stressful life events (SLEs), and intelligence (assessed by the Raven’s Progressive Matrices). We found good evidence of interactions between intelligence and certain SLEs for predicting depression; (a) parents nagging on adolescent (interaction found in boys); (b) regularly dating a new person (interaction found in boys); and (c) breaking up with a regular dating partner (interaction found in girls). In all cases, the interaction indicated that intelligence had a buffering effect. These results also suggest that a natural use of intelligence is in dealing with complexities in social relationships, which may have implications for social theories of the evolution of intelligence.High intelligence, in other words, helps its possessor deal with social stress just as it does with other complex challenges in life. People with high IQ have lower accident rates, and obviously do better in life, because they can see the answers to problems better than those with lower IQ. That much is nearly intuitively obvious.
Yet the myth of a link between high IQ and mental illness, or at least a disturbed personality, lives on, as The New Yorker article illustrates. Science, however, shows otherwise. When these things are studied systematically, we discover that higher IQ enables one to cope with the stresses of life, even when those stresses are social or psychological.
Proper socialization is a subject which constantly arises when high IQ in children is discussed, the idea being apparently that highly intelligent kids will somehow be psychologically warped if they are not like everyone else. Of course, among "normal" kids these days, rap music, drug use, and early sexuality are rampant. What the study cited above shows is that high IQ kids have the ability to be far more normal, in a psychologically sound sense, than those with a lower IQ.
Update 1/1/09: I see that the above link no longer works. Use this one.
Labels: IQ
posted by Dennis Mangan @ 5:25 AM
78 comments
78 Comments:
I suspect that you are right, in general; i.e., that people with high IQ scores adapt better, etc.
However, ponder the situation of a boy with an IQ that is probably at least 50-60% higher than that of the tyrannical and emotionally severe father who lorded over him during all his childhood and adolescence.
This was the case with me and my life, my father being the tyrant, I the son. While my father didn't "abuse" me such that I could have been placed in foster care, his treatment of me was sometimes no less than tormenting. And despite my graduating at the top of my high school class, despite my receiving numerous awards, including a scholarship to college, I "crumbled" around age nineteen. It began as anxiety, then depression. And I was never able to "adapt."
And it was clear to me and to the many psychologists and psychiatrists I saw over the next fifteen years that my depression problems were (and are) the result of the way my father treated me as I grew up, and how I tried to deal with this, given my high IQ and my "artistic imagination."
My IQ has been of no help in "adapting" or in becoming "normal," as you mention here. What began as depression and anxiety grew to the point that I just might be one of the smartest people ever to reach the age of forty-six and never hold a job, never have a family, never really to do anything "normal."
Perhaps, you're thinking, this isn't about IQ. Consider though, that my brother, who is one year older than I am, was raised by the same father, and who has an average IQ, is *so* normal it's downright amazing. He has never been depressed in his life. He married at twenty-one. He has three high-achieving, college-educated daughters (all very normal). He has a normal house and two normal cars. He has a normal income, but saves and invests as befits a person so normal. He is so normal, in fact, that he deems mental illness and maladaptive people as poppycock, and not worth his time even to consider.
My father, now at 75, holds the same attitude. Someone as smart as I am, they say, why... it's a sin not to have done more!
Hey-ho.
That's my comment.
I totally agree with Anonymous.
I was neglected and abused by my parents and at the age of 13 had an IQ of 125. What happens is that you become extremely depressed and filled with anxiety. Then you self medicate with drugs and alchohol..You go thru failed relationships and marriages because inside you have anger and anxiety ...I feel that because we are smarter we think deeper and that only makes things worse. Whereas a lower IQ would be over a failed relationship in a matter of weeks....The higher IQ would sit and analyze what went wrong over and over and it would take at least 6 months to year to get over a failed relationship..
Mtalaman3@aol.com
A high IQ may help make one more analytical, and thus able to sort out stresses or problems. However, the artistically gifted...composers, writers,painters, sculptors, dramatists, and such are famously known to suffer disproportionately
from bipolarity, or behavior marked by periods
of high elation followed by depression. It's
a sort of creative post-partem condition...
The other curse of intelligence is the ability to see the big picture - in the real world, there is little that is more depressing and few seem to care or take notice. Billions will die this century at the hands of tyrants they see but do not recognise. Tragic.
I believe that there is a link between intelligence and mental illness. The problem, that is not realized by those that disagree with this, is that depression is a RESOURCE HOG like a large program on your computer. In the process of using all of your mental resources, it does not allow you to express your intelligence outwardly and therefore, by an observer's viewpoint, you are not seen as intelligent. Depression involves a great deal of rumination which is a very analytical process. I sense that there are some controll issues here. Like when we try to analyze things that cannot honestly be seen in a logical way. Failed relationships are a good example. Our intelligent mind tries to make sense of it and thus becomes depressed when we cannot work it all out logically.
My IQ is pretty high (in the mid 140's) and I am known for being optimistic, funny and happy go lucky. I don't think that depression is directly related to IQ - I think it is directly related to one's ability to communicate with others. I was a born extrovert. I was raised in a mentally and emotionally abusive household but my intelligence gave me the ability to survive.
Intelligent people over think issues. As a result we have insightful outcomes or depression. Ignorant people have nothing to be depressed about.
I was born with a high IQ and should have done extremely well in school but I was sexually abused when I was a child and as a result I became a recluse. This adversely affected my ability to communicate with others, then aged 13 I developed bipolar disorder and dropped out of school for the next 5 years I tried to go back but could never stick it out not that I don’t have a education I just never sat any state exams. I am only starting to overcome the damage that has been done to me but I have lost some of my ability apart from one subject and the only thing that gave me some joy through the years.
My high IQ was neither the cause nor the cure for my problems and in my situation not of any use. I can understand how it would help “normal”/ minor mental health issues but not anything significant.
There's no way that relatively low-IQ people could be "happier" than higher IQ people...until there is equality in life, in schools and in the JOB MARKET (equal pay for equal EFFORT) and/or a chance to tweak one's individual biology to achieve IN ONESELF any IQ score one desires. Until then there will be greater feelings of personal disempowerment, resentment, and DEPRESSION among relatively lower-IQ people, HOWEVER these feelings are expressed (bragging, denial, substance abuse, lack of "trying" etc...) And universal LYING about the cause. So I just wish all the smarties in the world would stop trying to make believe they have similar problems...because as long as they can CHOOSE (hasn't there been a longtime "human potential" movement in psychology...just to milk this very tricky concept???) to earn a relatively good living of some type... they just have NO SUCH similar problems. They might have OTHER kinds of problems, but I'll say it again...there's no use trying to pretend it's the same thing... because NOBODY who is NOT so well endowed...is being fooled. So please come off it, and either build your own planet and move in and close the door...OR face the truth of the vicious inequality in society that is (yes, Herenstein & Murray, we all know what you two think you discovered) so terribly corrosive to social solidarity and our ability to contribute as a human race...to building a better world. And then if you wanna show how smart you really are...go back to the top of this paragraph and see if you can manage to achieve one of those two stated goals. Thanks in advance.
Depression is a broad term. Many people become depressed for many different reasons. To say those with a lower IQ will be happier than more intelligent people cannot be altogether true. People of any IQ can go through a horrific ordeal and having coping difficulties, even if it's only the monotony of every day life, it's natural. However many intelligent people do have the ability or curse to think about things in much more depth. This questioning and analytical nature can help and hinder those with depression. It is not surprising there was a link between depression and intelligence as many people with a high IQ will question their place in life and wonder why they are there at all. They may experience extreem feelings of inferiority. And analyse all sorts of situations to no end. Also they tend to have a more vivid imagination. Either way the thoughts involved with depressoin are extremely complex and cannot be summed up so simply.
I recently found out that I am 'gifted' with an IQ of 130. I am 19 years old, And I have and currently struggle with depression or bipolar disorder, I really don't know which. I think that IQ is a double edged sword, given normal circumstances, yes an intelligent person can cope better. I firmly believe that If something traumatizing happens, the person has an understanding of what happened to an almost waking nightmare resemblance. I am also very artistic and touched by music. I would really like to see a set of data based on a larger sample, instead of just virginia. And I don't know which person said it, but yes, intelligent people turn to drugs an alcohol, because understanding is not equal to coping in any way, and I think this article makes the mistake of trying the make the two synonymous. I also believe that there are more kinds of intelligence, One of my friends has about an average Iq, I think, but Hes able to understand all of the abstract ideas that I toss at him. I would have expected quite the opposite from this study, and i believe there is true meaning to the words "ignorance is bliss."
i have a relatively high IQ (148 +/-) and i can guarantee you that the same things that make high IQ minds work logically faster also make them emotionally/socially weaker. no if's, and's or but's about it!
one day science will catch up with what i already know... that is, soon as the world accepts that the brain is round, not flat.
tony walton, genius.
I think that a number of elements-lacking in this study-should be taken into account for a fuller picture of the problem. First of all, a better understanding of intelligence. The so-called IQ only measure certain abilities. It never measures others such as those in the so-called EQ. It matters because high intelligences picture reality in very different terms according to the intelligence involved. Secondly, a high IQ only gives the answer or solution to a problem, but not the ability to actually solve a problem. This indeed can be a huge source of depression. Thirdly, one has to take into account the chemical factor. The brain is not pure thoughts and emotions, it is also chemistry. A chemical imbalance can dramatically affect the thought process. I have no idea what my IQ is, but I know that I am intelligent enough to find very few people with whom I actually feel confortable talking to-i.e. people who actually get what I say (I gave up hopes in finding people who would get me). Most of the people are boring me, and sometimes depressing me because of the preposterous way they see me with their petty intelligence. I have learned to cope with these peoples, but they used to make me incredibly sad since I could not understand why they were understanding me in such or such a way and producing a "reality" of my "self" that had nothing to do with who I was. Being a teenager, even highly intelligent, is still being a teenager, and this means being vulnerable and sensitive to interactions with others. I had to cope with almost 15 years of depression since my teenage years. Most of it is because I see reality without filters, because I see problems, lots of problems, and also many solutions but cannot act to implement them. I see people and life as a big pile of idiocy upon which intelligence seems completely uneffective. The only friends possible are only books, since they seem to make some sense. I could only come out of depression by learning to build some shield between me and others, which means basically learning sarcasm and irony, turning idiocy into revealing itself, playing with people as actors in a play. For the rest: reading and writing is the only communication form possible with the world.
I guess unintelligent people mainly see "fake problems", which can be a source of depression as they see dozens and dozens of problems in a day without any solutions. Basically everything that does not turn out the way they wanted is a problem. Fairly intelligent peoples do not see "fake problems" or have solutions for all of them. They are happy people. Then highly intelligent people see "real problems", and it drives them crazy to see so many of them. They tend to get obsessed by them and want to solve them. Depression happens when other traits of character lack such as tenacity, self confidence, focus, a strong character that can make you ignore every one else who would tell you you are wrong or anything to discourage you to perdure on what they do not perceive to be a problem worthwhile investigating. Or otherwise, they find solutions to well known problems, but nobody cares to think they are worhtwhile... even if they are.
I think it's an interactional effect. Smart unhappy people are able to speak more eloquently about their unhappiness than stupid unhappy people. They're also more likely to become artists and creative types (and knowledge of this link goes back centuries) whereas happy smart people become successful lawyers, etc. and are never heard from again.
I'm a male, 37 years old. Married, soon to be divorced. My tested IQ in high school was in the 140s. Academic scholarships to both high school and college. My father was an insane, abusive alcoholic, and we lived in a neighborhood of crazy people.
I have and have had many friends, yet feel alone most of the time. Sometimes I'm so depressed I can barely get off the couch for days. Meanwhile, I'm the author of three published novels (one of which has been translated into several languages), one book of nonfiction, and have had pretty successful (and somewhat related) careers in politics, public relations and fundraising. I've traveled to many parts of the world.
I pay to see a therapist every week, and sometimes I think I do this just to have someone I can talk to. I feel like hell, generally speaking.
I found this page while trying to explain to myself why it appears that I have become more stupid over the years. I'm 19, and for the last year and a half have hardly been happy once. Yesterday was an exception, until I saw the a friend's (high) IQ test results on none other than facebook (so grains of salt may be required, but that's not the point).
Instantly I was reminded of my innermost struggle - from a young age (~11) I had the misfortune of associating academic performance with self-worth. Eventually the only thing that kept me going was the belief that I had a capable mind.
Over the years, I have taken several IQ tests. The only properly administered one, I was told, was when I was very very young - the result was something like 119. Since then I've received (from numerous online tests), in order, 166, 14x (can't remember), 133. This this morning I did another online test three times and got 120, 137 and 129, in that order.
My friend got 138 in this online test. He's an exceptional person, but in growing up with him I've psychoanalysed him as much as myself. My final conclusions were essentially that our minds worked very differently - yet here a number is trying to rank me?
Anyway, this is beside the point. I spent much of my life living in anxiety, in fear, and in chronically stressed states over exams, and any other opportunity I thought others may take to mock my intelligence, or rank me below anyone else. Eventually (at the end of high school), it culminated into pretty extreme sadness.
The sadness was a more deep realisation of the hypocricy and meaninglessness of the society I found myself in, life, and other such crises. I wouldn't've called it depression at the time out of respect for those who had clinically diagnosed difficulties (for I'm yet to see a doctor), but in hindsight there's not much more I could've called it.
I came searching here to answer the same question I've been asking myself for years. How smart am I?
I remember as a child being very, very, capable. Not alot was too hard (yet I wasn't exactly a math prodigy, so let's not get carried away). Over the years my memory dwindled (I stopped reading books, started playing with computers), my mind rotted, it seemed. In the last year and a half I've struggled with university, where once I would've found it a walk in the park (as someone else mentioned above). I gained scholarships that put me near the top of the country's students, yet learning became very difficult, reading, memorising, thinking - all my thoughts were occupied by my own self-demise.
My question is now this: is it fathomable that my apparent decreasing cognitive ability was induced by the years of not exercising my brain? By years of self-doubt, misery, stress? Anxiety?
The first time I did that IQ test, this morning, I felt extremely stupid. I had no idea what I was doing, let alone what buttons to push (granted, I'm jetlagged, it was very early in the morning & I had a poor night's stressful sleep, but these are excuses). The second time was much better! The same types of questions made infinitely more sense all of a sudden, and bam, 17 more points. Yet, I know I could do better.
Once upon a time I could visualise, solve problems in my head quickly - I could think very well. Yet these days I seem to spend more time staring... my mind numbed by so much critical self-analysis that it seems to have little will to do anything else... but will I can change, my fear is that it no longer even has the ability.
I hope, deep down, that the mind is just like any other muscle. Mine was once very strong, and so it can be again - but it must take time. I came here looking to see if science had already sought to answer the same question. I want to be intelligent again :( My brain feels so... out of practice. Is it a lost cause?
(Apologies for how disjointed this is - I travelled half-way around the world (18000km GPS tells me) to spend far too much holiday time trying to sort my life out. Being a youth in a quest for self-identity doesn't really help either.)
Anxiety and depression are two mental disorders that apart from being confused very often are also two of the commonest mental illnesses. Technically and medically there are a lot of dissimilarities between them though they seem to be similar on the surface. However, the fact that they are often confused to be the same is because they do have certain similarities. As for example the symptoms are very similar. There are certain similarities in the analogy also like both anxiety and depression can be caused by medicines or medications of other diseases or drug interactions. Antidepressants like xanax are prescribed by doctors for both anxiety as well as depression.
If I may say I agree with the blog.
I was told that like isn't just black and white. It has that huge gray area
that I haven't been able to adept yet. For example when I am around extremely smart people I get a rush.
I have someone to talk to. And I don't have to explain the something more then twice. Task get done faster. Or When I am talking to a very intelligent women. For that mere moment I feel complete. Maybe it is just funding your equal or someone that understands you.
It was my own personal difficulties that caused me to stumble upon this article, and, considering I've experienced many of the concerns, feelings, and issues noted above, I must say it is a bit consoling to know that I'm not as alone in experiencing this as I once believed. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm a genius (as I'm steadfastly wary of the vanity and egotism that often accompanies such a claim), but I've often been told that I'm highly gifted. I'm not sure what my true "IQ" is, if there's even any validity in gauging the functional capacity of an organ system as complex as the human brain through use of a single, composite value, but on various tests I've taken over the years I've supposedly been measured somewhere around 130-140.
Growing up I always had to "dumb down" my vocabulary and topics of conversation to meet the comprehensible capacities of my peers. I never really had trouble "fitting in" socially, as I've had many friends, but all my actions (and even some friendships) always hinted (at least to me) of artificiality and superficiality. I could easily enjoy the simple companionship of almost any decent, friendly person, but it was exceptionally rare to find someone who I could really connect with on an intellectual level. To this date I've only found perhaps a few individuals to whom I can ascribe this characteristic to, and even with them I sometimes cannot share a true understanding of the world. It just always feels as though I'm pretending, projecting an outward facade towards others while simultaneously betraying my inner self.
My first real depression came when I was about 16 or 17, around the time I truly began to be become disillusioned to the reality of the world and society I was growing up into. All of my friends and peers were complacent with school and their teenage lives and were preparing to go happily off to college, but I couldn't help but wonder at the absurdity of the societal systems they were buying into, and the mundanity of the beaten path they were following. (No, I'm not an anarchist or anything, despite how these ravings may sound). I couldn't help but desire something different, something more. Nobody understood. They all ascribed my alternative, "deviant" attitudes towards life and society to a more base, trivial set of emotions such as laziness or fear of growing up, etc. Sometimes I would just become saddened by the slightest event, or even by nothing at all. The world just depressed me.
It was also around this time that I developed my existential anxiety, which has always sort of wound its way into most of my worldly laments, and is one of the main things that still plagues me.
I'm now 20 (almost 21) and depression has hit me again, this time with a vengeance. I feel like I can't keep "lying" to myself about the true relevance (or lack thereof) of my existence. It feels as though I can see through the veil of reality whereas others cannot, and I can see life as it truly is: a maddening array of paradoxes, ultimately pointless and futile on the cosmic scale. Nothing I do has any true consequence. It's like I'm just living through a series of arbitrary distractions that I fabricate to keep my mind and body busy while I parade towards the inevitable, ultimate finality of death.
Like someone said above, I also feel that I'm losing my intelligence. It vexes me much. I'm unsure whether the underlying cause is simply the lack of "exercise" my mind has received in the last couple years or the psychochemical effects of the depression that has enveloped me. Sometimes it feels like my brain has released an "emotional opiate" intended to alleviate the psychological turbulence within, and it completely deactivates and inhibits my critical thinking capacities in an attempt to prevent me from further analyzing my problems and thus perpetuating the grief. I don't believe there's much worth available to me through therapy at the moment (I don't even believe in some psychotherapy), and though I've considered taking antidepressants, I don't want to experience life through a screen of pharmaceuticals.
So yes, I suppose that, to a point, people with higher intelligences are able to "solve" more of life's problems and thus have "happier" lives (with more money, better jobs, nicer housing arrangements, and many of the other pillars of what is, in the general consensus of a capitalist society, considered to be a "good" and desirable life), but at some point, high up on the intelligence scale where few are able to claim position, that positive linear correlation between IQ and Happiness simply drops off into oblivion, for people of that caliber seem simply to perceive the world through different means. At the end of the day, we're all just "players on a stage".
To Anon above: I could have written your comment, so closely does it follow some of my thinking and experience. As for your "existential anxiety", that's a hard one to shake, as you can't just start believing in something - God for example - that you have no good reason to. The lack of true peers is also troubling - I find it hard to talk to anyone, with 99% of people sounding like morons, which doesn't of course make them bad people. You didn't ask for advice but I'll point out a couple of things: 1) depression can be inflammatory i.e. a physical illness. Don't assume that you're doing it to yourself. Go to a doctor. 2. Marriage and family, assuming of course that it's done right, may help that existential anxiety.
To Anon again: Hope you're still reading, as we're having a spirited discussion of your case on the main page.
http://mangans.blogspot.com/2008/09/comment-on-high-iq-and-depression.html
Would be great if you'd weigh in there.
A good read.
Consider that depression is extremely complex and simple at the same time, and therein the danger.
Ever heard the phrase "you think too much"? Well, that's the endless trap of depression for the highly intelligent.
There is no correlation, because the outcome is not a given.
Sure my father was overpowering, and I felt like i was in prison. But later i left home for studies..
My IQ is 150. It was the source of my depression. For me, the idea of not being normal, left me on my own planet (alone), and the idea of failure in any shape or form, or not amounting to greatness, was like non-existence (worse than invisible, as if i never was).
The problem is that for the highly intelligent, no amount of self-talk therapy or techniques can convince you out of depression, because you have seen every angle of the problem already. The only one who can help you, is you.
So after many years, I slowly let go of the existential problem, and just be, just live. I am free. I guess I turned my intelligence away from myself, and my place, and just let me BE part of my environment.
Depression is a dark tar pit, worse than vomit. I pray that everyone can look up and see light.
I don't really know how smart i am, but i can really relate to many people who posted here. Ever since i was little, I've always wondered about many things (well who hasn't), but the curiosity in me had always thought about...the world...and its people. And as i grew up...i found myself...sadder...and sadder...and less appreciative of the things around me. Its almost as if i've built this imaginary world that is so idealist and so 'perfect' that the world that i live in seems to not be in my interest anymore. I always feel like i cannot connect with anyone else, i cant carry on a normal conversation, because i just dont know what to say except for the things that i think about all the time in my head. I feel like my mind is always at work, wondering about the problems of human beings, analyzing the behaviours of everything, constantly trying to make myself stop thinking by creating theories and logics of events and reactions of people. (i basically just think in psychology and philosophy, which i think are totally useless to me at the moment) The worse part is, the more i analyze 'life', the more i depressed i feel, i wonder if i'm just a thinking with a straight trait of pessimism, or am i just really realizing the true factors of life and thus feeling completely hopeless and helpless...it feels like i'm rather analyzing the world all the time with my mind rather than actually being in it ,living and experiencing everything with a heart like a human being...I just feel so away from the world (symptom of depression?)...
When i was young...or younger, i was always able to solve problems, logically, and visualize clear images...have many abstract ideas...inventive ideas...and solutions and answers. But lately, ifeel like a let down, of myself, like some of you have mentioned here, i've always had about 70% of my mind wondering if i can do it, and thinking that i probably cant, and making my self feeling worse, while actually looking at a problem and trying to solve it. Its like i lose motivation on the problem and i dont even focus on it, I feel very dumb and incapable afterwards, which only continues this cycle of "self-demise". I sometimes just feel 'mindless', and sometimes i feel like there's a beehive in my mind...but these days...i just feel...stupid...just incapable of anything, cant draw, cant play music, cant do math, cant play sports...like some of you mentioned, i too have always wondered if its my lack of 'mind practice' and/or my self inflicting doubt of my abilities.
I feel like i'm worse than anyone else, but also more than anyone else at the same time, but seriously, i really just wish to think on the surface most of the time, and not go down in a spiral of pessimistic analysis of everything...
"this person doesn't sound too educated/intelligent", trust me i'm not made to sound intelligent, i'm made to think, its a different intelligence to be able to express intelligence.
But i believe i dont seem smart, but the honesty is in with the fact that i do think like that, and i wish not to anymore, because its just processes of infinite regression...
Personally I think intelligence and the reasons for intelligence are complex. Therefore it is difficult to correlate IQ levels to emotional well being. Perhaps research should distinguish between different inteligence types, and not on IQ alone. Throwing personality types into the bag would be interesting too.
I can't spend much time on this because I am busy with a bunch of projects today but I wanted to post something even if a small one. To the point, my IQ was measured with the Stanford-Binet IQ exam in 1979 by a licensed school counselor and I scored 148 which is pretty darn high. I know for a fact that despite my being almost beaten to DEATH at age 4.5 that my IQ has helped me some but not that much, it's too high, I would rather be in the 120's for sure. I have been very successful with business, money, marriage, children, education and achievements but I will ALWAYS feel like a piece of trash or garbage. I am going to die this way and I am so sick of thinking about it I wish it was tomorrow.
I'm skeptical of how accurately my IQ has been measured as I've only taken online tests, and they all seemed too easy. However, they consistently rated me at about 140.
Being highly intelligent is definately more than a little responsible for my thirteen year depression (I'm 25 now). The "existential anxiety" is a huge factor for me; I started to feel small when the world started to seem big. Being unable to relate to others with any degree of depth and insight doesn't make me any happier either.
The greater awareness that comes with being intelligent has exposed me to problems most others don't even know about (mostly philosophical, some contemporary - such as the environment). As such, I feel it's my responsibility to solve those problems, or at least try to, because otherwise these problems will be left for those who don't even understand them! Voicing these concerns is usually replied by "You think too much", and although I am too smart for my own good, I'm also not smart ENOUGH to do anything about it. Imagine leaving issues like global warming to idiots who think the scientists of the future will solve them. It's akin to raping mother earth and giving her AIDS, and saying "It's okay, we'll find a cure for AIDS before it's too late"... but I digress.
I just can't believe in finding happiness for myself without being apathetic to the future of humanity, and I can't reconcile those two.
However, the link between depression and intelligence could simply be the same link between depression and abnormality, with a twist. If all of my peers were as intelligent as I, I doubt I would feel as burdened and hopeless. It's funny, because when people try to cheer me up about things, I naturally argue against them - not because I disagree, but because I can't let one side go unvoiced. I usually rip their arguments to shreds. Maybe if they supported my misery, I could start to make some good optimistic arguments that'd cheer me up.
But I continue to be depressed.
Sometimes I wish I was stupid.
Sometimes I wish I could stop thinking about philosophy, and the world. (Is philosophy even an ethical pursuit? Seems more like a waste of time)
Usually I just wish I was dead.
I could repeat verbatim some of the posts on this blog. The feeling of isolation and impending doom that my intelligence can bring is overwhelming. I have found, though, that meditation is an amazing therapeutic tool, if only to clear your mind when the vastness of the existential paradox is taking hold. I'm still in an introductory phase to meditating, and I can't always get it to work for me, but when it does it's more help to me than any therapist or anti-depressant that I could ever imagine.
Although it might seem strange, whenever I start to feel alone I like to think back on Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Marvin represents the epitome of our problem in a sense, as the closer you get to intellectual perfection the more paradoxical problems will weigh upon your mind.
In reality, it's truly my belief that ignorance is the most elegant solution there is to existentialism.
To those of you with genius level IQ's, you have my sympathy. It's you who will have the hardest time achieving this.
Emotional stability is a function of several factors: genetics, hormones, parenting, trauma, neurological anomalies, to name a few. If you go here, http://sailing-to-byzantium.blogspot.com/, you can read a blog I wrote on William James Sidis, whose IQ was estimated to be between 250 and 300. Amy Wallace wrote a biography about him entitled "The Prodigy."
I don't have a high IQ (about 125), but many of my friends are above 140. Early learning is a big factor in establishing emotional stability. Your parents can make you crazy.
I worked in psychiatric hospitals for years, and the patients had IQs all over the map. The defining characteristic of their misery was childhood experiences - parenting.
Intelligent people can explore and articulate their misery better than others, but everyone with depression and anxiety is feeling pain.
Rational Emotive Therapy (Albert Ellis) can help you help yourself, but sometimes there is no solution other than medication.
The majority of people commenting on here are saying some pretentious and ridiculous things!
"Intelligent people over think issues. As a result we have insightful outcomes or depression. Ignorant people have nothing to be depressed about."
Whats wrong with you? Being so intelligent I suppose you therefore seem to have no room for empathy? How can you pretend like your more burdened then someone because you assume that your more intelligent and then a less brilliant individual wouldn't have enough knowledge to realize the weariness of there daily life.
I highly doubt theres any correlation between IQ and intelligence. Based on what I've read so far I'd say there is simply a large amount of people who feel sorry for themselves and think that they're so highly intelligent that looking down on mass of people they feel are "ignorant" and assume are happy makes them feel a little about their sad lives.
"What began as depression and anxiety grew to the point that I just might be one of the smartest people ever to reach the age of forty-six and never hold a job, never have a family, never really to do anything "normal."
Having a illness doesn't mean that you should just give up on your life. There is no such thing as normal, but there are people who hide behind things to give them the freedom to not have to live in the real "normal" world.
I've suffered from depression before, albeit nothing to hindering, and i think its crazy to assume "the intelligent" suffer more. I'm sorry for those actually suffering from any illness imagined or not but if you really that condescending you need to hop off your high horse and look around.
I'm not claiming to no anything about the individuals on here so i apologize if I'm wrong but some of you guys need to grow up. Life doesn't just turn out the way you plan.
Damn.
I do think that high I.Q. and depression are linked. I think there is an interesting difference between being genetically capable of being smart and whether you develop it. I developed it because other avenues (sports/popularity/good looks) were closed to me. Ignorance is bliss. I think that being very intelligent is not "natural." Our ancestors in the hunter-gatherer times didn't have the time to reflect and over think like we do. They were busy.. In this way high intelligence only seems to come about in advanced civilizations where one has the time to reflect and develop one's I.Q. I think it is partially nurture and not all nature, yet most people are "dumb." Even reading is unnatural, damages the vision, yet it makes us smarter. I have come to the conclusion that it all doesn't really matter, and in a few years all of us will be dead, so don't worry so much about trivial (temporary) problems. Yes, we are all temporary. We are just an advanced monkey creature, and all of you shouldn't take life too seriously. Before you know it, life will be over, and you spent your time talking to a shrink. Drinking may help. It helped many "geniuses" from Hemingway to Faulkner drinking himself to death. It helps dull the edges of life. I even question the value of education. Why are we trying to make students more "intelligent." All of the most intelligent people that I know are on some kind of psychotropic drug. Is this good?
I think we must be careful here. To suggest IQ and Depression are correlated does not mean that there's direct causation. It could be that another factor related to, or a byproduct of IQ. Maybe early social and emotional growth is stunted in high IQ children. Since they don't feel like they're on the same level as peers, this interferes with their natural development. The very defintion of intelligence is also up for debate. And IQ is arguably a crude (and failed) measure. For me, intelligence is about seeing patterns and appreciating the complexity of situations. It's that primitve ability to predict what will happen, although now layered with language and advancement. Frequently I find myself seeing so many angles that I become overwhelmed, apathetic. In social situations it causes me to over-analyse to the extreme. It's not unusual to consider 10 responses or opinions before the one I choose actually comes out of my mouth. More often, I just keep quiet. It's like there's an elaborate mental filter stunting the flow that others seem to enjoy. Being intelligent seems to complicate what should really be simple. Even when we realise this, it doesn't seem to help.
I have an IQ of 172 and whilst I have always been well adjusted in social situations and am very popular down the pub, I have always found it difficult to make intimate relationships.
I have to actively avoid intimacy because I find hard to hold a relationship for more than a few weeks before I can guess the end of their sentences. At this point it becomes very hard to relate as person. The longest relationship I ever had was for 3 years where I constantly had to dumb myself down to maintain the relationship without coming across patronising. It was hell.
All I seek in life is someone I can hold a conversation with without feeling alienated because of my intelligence yet I'm always met with disappointment.
Sure I can deal on my own, and I get by but it depresses me that I'll always be alone.
Intelligence and depression
Life is not joyful…
I exist and I am not happy
Days spent being introspective
Self Destructive behaviors smoking, gambling
Not a sign of high intelligence
A world of childhood wonder and innocence lost
Adulthood, the eyes are open never to close
Humanity is its own destroyer…
And yes I think too much…
Mark
I believe that there is a link between IQ and depression. People with High IQ's are more sensititive to information and process it a lot more than their lower IQ counterparts. For example the world news may upset a High IQ person more than a low IQ person as the High IQ person sees the longer term consequences of world events etc.
Wow a lot of smart people who dont understand stats. Then again the study might be flawed....Those of us that have made it to becoming psychiatric in spite or our intelligence should value our pain and turn it greatness. Emotional failure is artistic success.
"Wow a lot of smart people who dont understand stats."
That about sums it up, I think.
Ignorance is bliss, it is said. But ignorance isn't synonymous with a lack of intelligence. It comes from the ability to ignore things. Many intelligent people, I believe, can see through the B.S. of life and are troubled by macro scale problems and idiotic social systems. The true happiest people are those who can attain ignorance without that feeling of having deceived themselves.
When I was 15 I had an IQ test properly administered and came out with a result of 148. Although I wouldn't put this in the genuis category as online IQ tests try to do (in which my results have varied between 121 to 168). However, it has left me with some problems.
As a very young child I was very, very sharp and NEEDED to go to school. Playschool had been tried, but after a year I had acedemically outgrown it so I started school a year too early. Despite being younger than the rest of the class, I still caught on to the material much faster. After only a single demonstration, I could do something to perfection (the exception being spelling, but I have dyslexia to thank for that - dyslexia that wasn't discovered until I was in my 20s because my intelligence had masked it entirely). This might sound like a gift, but it was my curse. I spent my entire education completely, totally and utterly bored.
This boredom led to two main problems. One being that I'm a dreadful underachiever and the other being that I've always felt socially isolated.
The reason for becoming an underachiever is that one demonstration is sufficient. I do not need anything repeated. When I revise, I get so bored that I fall asleep. Ultimately, I'm relying entirely on what I can remember from the first time I was taught something when I sit an exam.
The social isolation stemmed from the fact that I just happened to notice that nobody else seemed to mind the teacher doing the one thing five or six times. Then when I was in the equivelant of first grade, our teacher revised shapes with us. SHAPES! I was five years old for God's sake, I did not need to revise SHAPES! As I got older, I developed an interest in current affairs and "big questions" seriously questioning my own existence. How do you answer those questions when your eight year old asks them? WHen you know that acedemically they can understand, but they lack the emotional understanding.
This point is key. There is a constant asynchronous development when you're dealing with so called "gifted" children. Emotionally, when I started school I was three years old. Acedemically I was probably around six or seven years old.
So despite all the best parenting, people who have grown up in an acedemic environment that is entirely unsuited to their needs will always have an uneasy feeling of not really fitting in properly. In a group of acedemic peers, they're socially younger. In a group of social peers, they're acedemically very much older.
So while, yes, I have never had a problem making and retaining friends, the point still remains that, for the vast majority of the time, I don't connect properly with my friends. There are certain elements of me that don't BELONG. Humans need to belong. So there's always that little insecurity there. I also think I might be slightly socially retarded because I don't always realise if something is not appropriate conversation material. Mainly because quite abstract things will hold my attention and I will study them very much indepth and debate them to death if given my own way.
So my whole life I've never fitted in in the same way as other people do. There's always a part of me that has been "different". The one exception was when I went to (and this sounds awful) a summer camp for "gifted" kids (had to take aptitude tests to be accepted). I was thirteen. My mum picked me up after the first day and my first comment was "I can talk to these people. They're like me". In retrospect, that comment probably made her completely thrilled for me but also probably broke her heart.
So after an accumulation of over two decades of being a slight misfit. After beating myself up for only ever getting mediocre results when my IQ and aptitude tests said I should have been doing brilliantly (perhaps partly due to an undiagnosed learning difficulty). After years and years of acedemic boredom and lack of stimulation, I did crack. Life was just so unfair. I understood everything and what was worse, I knew my behavour was completely bizarre - non-sensical. I became angry and distant, relationships fell apart, I became very depressed and ultimately tried to kill myself.
Humans need to belong. People would understand people getting depressed if they didn't fit in physically and would instantly go "of course there's a link". Why do people find it so difficult to believe that when someone has found it impossible to fit in their whole life because of something that CAN'T be seen, there might be a link to increased incidence of depression?
The worst thing is, I'm not among the smartest. Sure, I'm smart. My percentile scores put me in the top 1% in everything bar spelling. My IQ score is firmly above the average mark. But there are plenty out there that do much, much better than I do on these tests. I'm sure some are normal, but I can only imagine the agony that some of them go through in their daily lives.
(For what it's worth, my grandfather was also extremely intelligent, the first person in the country to pass a certain exam and he tried to kill himself twice. My uncle is very artistically gifted and nearly killed himself with drugs and alcohol and recently tried to kill himself - shortly afterwards he was diagnosed with bipolar. My mother is extremely gifted but never excelled in ANYTHING and suffers from depression. I probably shouldn't have kids).
Truth is, both positions are true to an extent. I can speak only from personal experience and because of my young age, 22, I may still not be able to evaluate it properly.
I have a very high IQ, 156-158, but I suffered extremely severe depressions from my 18th year till now. Why? I was never abused, never forced to develop out of my natural way, I was always allowed to choose freely friends, education, hobbies etc.
I succeeded in almost anything, chess, education, poetry, drawing, sport, personal affairs. In spite of this, I couldn't stop being depressive, although rationally, I understood there is no basis, no reason; I despised myself cause I thought I imagined all this and played a victim all the time, but now I see this is an inborn feature, I don't know if it has to do with intelligence or not. Maybe higher IQ "helps" being more creative in your inner dialogues, maybe more acute imagination develops more and more elaborate tormenting images and dreams; indeed. But at the same time this is like any other inborn weakness: if you learn to deal with it, you'll grow stronger and you'll be able to put all the IQ and imagination to use, cause no matter of anything, they are a huge blessing. And the same imagination that could torment you with nightmares and obsessive images, could colour your everyday boring world in a great way and can give you the rush to chase hopeless causes and turn them to success. I'm saying this also out of experience.
Right now I'm having quite hard times, but I'm trying not to fall apart again; I've been down there and I know there's nothing worth.
Yet depression comes also as a natural regulator, so it's one's choice to view it as a curse and surrender or try, at least try, to see what could change for better.
Wish me luck :) I'm not taking xanax this time.
p.p. Sense of humour helps a lot also ;))
Katya
I'd love to see a clinical study done on IQ scores and psychological conditions. I was reported to have a score of 142 according to a test a couple years back and have been told I could pass and enter Mensa if I so desired.
I can see correlation between higher IQ and more acute types of psychological disorders. I suffer from dysthymia, a condition I've had for years. I'm not a habitual animal, in other words i've never done things on the merit of 'just because', 'to fit in' or for 'tradition'. I employ logic in all aspects of my life.
But what makes logic and intelligence link to depressive states of mind is really quite easy to see. For instance, it bothers the sh*t out of me the way our culture and society behaves and adores certain things. Athletes get 25 million dollar contracts while our schools suffer because they don't have adequate funding... wtf is that about? If each society took even so much as a 2% cut from the salaries of athletes and redirected that money towards the more crippled parts of the educational system the rewards would be tremendous!
I could go on and on and on like i do in my blogs about all the F'd up things about how we do things and how easy it is to see why our nation is in the state that its right now but all it does is put me into a further bad mood.
Simply put, its infuriating how so many people conduct themselves without so much as thinking about how pointless or hurtful some traditional - non-logical types of behavior can be to society, our culture and ultimately the nation as a whole. Some people, whole groups of people blindly follow what their told because we're taught that to survive you must conform and they employ the simplistic logic that if the group thinks it right then it must be right when in reality the group is actually wrong!
I don't agree with this.
I'm very prone to anxiety and depression (I'm currently on meds). And I'm VERY intelligent. I'm top of the class in pretty much every subject (I'm 15 by the way).
But, the thing is, I think I'd be a lot happier if I wasn't so brainy. Ignorance is bliss. I simply wouldn't have the capacity to overthink everything. I also feel lonely, because no-one seems to be on the same wavelength. People think I'm "funny" and "cool", but I find it very hard to fit in or to really connect with someone.
And it's probably got something to do with the fact I am an angry person, and a bit of a perfectionist. Which means I put a hell of a lot of pressure on myself, because I know I can succeed.
But I'm happy at the moment. Very happy. Probably too happy, I'm a bit scared I'm bipolar or something.
The point is, my emotions are very turbulent, and I really think that if it wasn't for my intelligence it wouldn't be that way.
So I read every comment here, which took a while, but I found them all incredibly interesting. I relate to most of the posts, except how everyone claims a high IQ. My IQ is completely average, but then I look at the questions asked and wonder how a person's intelligence is judged on such topics which don't hold any relevance except to provide a number, which you try to get as high as you can to prove to other people how you relate on a standardized test.
I have the ability to fly with wings in social situations if I feel the desire to, but most of the time I am tired of spending energy looking for people, that are worth having a conversation with, that I am able to predict.
I suppose I started out very intelligent as a child since I wasn't allowed in preschool, although I needed it, socially. By third grade, I realized that there was an option of not turning in homework, which led to bad grades and not caring about the subjects they taught. I concerned myself with concepts and philosophical thoughts, which examined the world as a large picture. The older I get, the more I realize that the picture keeps growing, and the facts that concern most, simply seem insignificant. I'm just in my early twenties, and although most of the time I wish I was never born or would just fall over and die, I realize that this world needs people that think this way.
For some reason, we are cursed but have the potential to use our perspective to benefit our society, that we have a programmed attachment toward. You can sit in a corner and debate for a lengthy period of time, but dedicate time toward exploring, learning, and documenting progress made. Your ability to live with depressing thoughts of the world is a skill which brings a unique perspective. You may fail, but at least you tried to create something different. The people that aren't innovative, simply waste time. Of course, one must wonder what the large perspective purpose is of innovating, but all I will say is that we have an innate feeling of benefiting the human race and our planet, which has to serve some sort of purpose that leads to an answer.
all an opinion of course, but I'd love to read more thoughts and even arguments against what I've said
Hey everyone, awesome blog... I have a 143 or so IQ but I am bad with the timed aspect of it, if untimed it would be around 155 or so.... I smoked booku mary jane for years and still have the same high IQ as always....
Being bright has negatives. You see that idiots have more money, attractive spouses, etc... etc... its harder for smart people to break up with significant others because we are smart.
I reject that high IQ is not a good measure of smarts -- some of the biggest idiots have great grades, sat scores, etc....
I have noticed underachievement and depression in my own life. I am not arrogant, I think of myself as a failure, yet I am a homeowner, have some income, two cars, blah blah blah..... I am not a famous author, an nfl quarterback, etc.... there is a big feeling of let down when you have a high IQ and low success in real life.
Thats what sucks about being smart. What doesnt suck about it? I can infer things and have instincts that others dont. I can see the gestalt bigger picture, and I am a decent writer.
Do any of these qualities get me the Investment Banking job at Morgan Stanley? Clearly NOT! The good jobs go to the guys with low IQ's and high SAT scores. Thats life.
We smart people feel isolated because America no longer values much in the way of substance versus format. We are red tapeaholics. There is vast rewards for those paperpushers who can do busy work better than the next guy and still smile and be "normal" about it.
Americans need to embrace us freaky intelligent people again, regardless of our flaws. I can't tell you how many idiots have gotten the good job with a lousier resume than me... its nuts... but then again, wasn't Einstein a slacker? I mean, WE SMART PEOPLE MUST FIND OUR NICHE BEFORE 30. TRY EVERYTHING ONCE. FAILURE, IF FAST ENOUGH, IS GOOD as you can change direction.
They say that banging your head against a wall over and over is much more painfull than going around the wall or finding a door!
TRUST ME, DO NOT LET OTHERS MAKE YOU FEEL INFERIOR -- ITS JUST THEIR SHTICK THAT GETS THEM TO THE TOP, NOT SMARTS......
99% of the "superiors" are inferiors, they say the meek shall inherit the earth.... I would say that many 140 plus IQ people are meek. ANYONE DIFFERENT IS WIERD. 100 is NORMAL.
I TRIED GETTING STONED DAILY FOR YEARS, MY IQ STAYED 140 PLUS.... YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH YOUR ABNORMALITY AND RELISH IN IT.... PLATO'S CAVE IS THE BLUEPRINT... IT SUCKS TO SEE THE DIRTY UNDERBELLY AND THE BS SO CLEARLY, BUT YOU OWE IT TO HUMANITY TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.....
AND THAT FOLKS, IS WHY IM SINGLE, BROKE, AND HAVE MANY, MANY FAILURES TO LOOK BACK ON........ BECAUSE I TRIED MY HARDEST!!!!!!!!!!
BE PROUD IF YOU CUT A DIFF. PATH!!!
I stumbled across this discussion via google on a "IQ depression" search, due to a long running suspicion about the cause of my depression. I am glad to have found other people in similar situations.
For as long as i can really remember, i have been seen as gifted. Mathematics was always my strength, because from an early age, logic has been my greatest asset. Hence I have high IQ, not tested for a while, but pitched about the 160 level 4 years ago.
But since the age of 10, i've had depression. As a ten year old though, i couldnt identify it, and infact i didnt really identify it fully until aged 16. Unlike others here, i had no traumatic incidents as a child, no overbearing parents, admittedly a certain level of expectation, but as to be expected from the grades i had been getting. Socially, i never truely excelled, but by the same comment, i havent struggled, i have multiple friends, luckily thanks to the area i live in and (state) school i go to, have many intellectual counterparts. but on some level i have always struggled against what i am. Despite being intellectual, my main draws in life have been sport and drama, despite being rather rubbish at both. in addition to that, over the last 2 years or so, i have taken to playing something of a fools role when the opportunity presents itself. A lack of motivation has been a problem for myself over the years of depression as well. this used to be countered by a fear of getting in trouble, but this fear is disappearing, which is alarming for me and my work.
On the depression side, it derives mainly from when i cannot logically understand something. Like in maths, if something is logically clear, i can understand and operate it. But when something moves away from a logical way of coming to the answer, and instead uses preset formulas which no-one can explain to me why they work, i struggle. unfortunatly this flows over into life, which logically i cannot make heads nor tails of. which of course means i am searching for a meaning of life, a fact i am fully aware of, and i understand is ridiculous and unreachable, but it is something that i need to find.
many comment above have commented on iq not being a great measure of intelligence, but undeniable it is a test of logic, which is the cause of the problems in my case anyway.
At 24, I have struggled with depression for most of my life. But as I get older and realize the true affects it has on my body and my future, I am looking for an answer. I have an IQ of 129 which is moderately high, well above average at least, and I feel that being of higher intelligence, my depression comes from lack of relating to anyone around me. The way I perceive the world and the conversations I never get to have take a toll on me. It's difficult to have people around you who struggle with things I could solve in one day. And then when you have a problem, one that requires thinking outside the box, they look at you as if you just grew a third eye in the middle of your forehead. Most of my pain and depression comes from feeling alone and as if no one in the world understands me. I definitely analyze things on a deeper level which makes my pain significantly worse than "normal" people. For example, I have a friend of 7 years who is not exactly the brightest crayon in the box and her life is filled with things that would send me over the edge and yet she seems to go through life completely unaffected by the chaos.
I've known I was different since I was a very young girl. But everyday gets harder when I learn more about myself and understand less about the world around me. I feel like I've lived a thousand lives on this planet and that I do not fit in. I find myself purposely avoiding social situations and always wanting to be alone. I feel my depression comes mostly from lack of being understood.
To cope and self-medicate, I have become a heavy pot smoker. I know that this is a temporary solution if a solution at all, but it shuts my over-worked brain off for a small amount of time and most of the time, it is worth it.
So, are IQ and depression related? I don't know but I once told my mom that happy people must be ignorant because of all the things that are wrong in this world.
I'm in the 99th percentile as far as IQ and close to that on the SAT. But I have always been lazy/unmotivated.
I never really pushed myself in high school and as a result I'm at a mid-level UC instead of Stanford or even Harvard. That itself gets me super-depressed but I continue to slack for some reason. I only took 5 AP classes in high school and only 4 AP tests (although I did score 5,5,5,4 with minimal effort)
I've always been envious of people who are motivated and know what they want to do from the get-go even if I test much higher than these people.
I know that at this rate I'm destined to teach which is not something I want to do. Not to mention the fact that I drink entirely too much all of the time.
As yet another commentator with a high IQ and depression, I think what we're all banging up against is the wall of the study.
First, the statistical fact that intelligent people are less likely to be depressed is entirely irrelevant to intelligent people who happen to be depressed anyway. Less likely is a far cry from can't be.
Second, the study doesn't apply to the vast majority of the commentators. Most of us have identified IQ's two or three standard deviations above average (130+ and 145+ respectively). Which is regrettable from a statistics perspective, because such scores don't occur with enough frequency to be statistically representative in a study like the one above. A more specific and more carefully attuned study would be required.
Finally, the study doesn't say that intelligence avoids depression it merely correlates intelligence to an ability to resolve distressing social scenarios. Given that intelligence tends to enhance overall problem solving, that would be expected, but it would also be expected that, given their enhanced problem solving abilities, intelligent people are distressed by different problems.
In light of all that and the above comments I feel confidant in saying that my intelligence has contributed to, rather than mitigated, my unhappiness. It's incredibly isolating and disillusioning, and also generates disappointment, apathy and (in my case) even shame. But, it's too late for me to tolerate myself if I was any less intelligent than I am.
I don't know about depression, but Rushton finds an inverse correlation between IQ by race and happiness.
http://vdare.com/misc/rushton_iq_conundrum.htm
If there is an IQ/happiness positive connection, I think you're all missing a very obvious reason why.
It simply feels good to be better than other people. If I was at bad at thinking as I am in sports I'd be so depressed I wouldn't be able to get out of bed. Knowing I have a high IQ is a cushion for my self-esteem.
If I was going to list the 5 happiest people I know, they'd probably all be attractive females. Why? Because in every social situation they're in they have high, if not the highest social value. People are more likely to smile at them, bosses are more likely to give them a break, men are more likely to seek their attention. Every social interaction is a reminder that they're better than others.
Similarly, in every academic class I've ever been in I've been one of the smartest, if not the smartest, person in class. When I would go to gym class I'd always be aware that I was one of the least athletic. Guess which one was more enjoyable for me? Eventually I left school, stopped taking gym class and escaped the curse of low athletic ability. People with low IQs are stuck with their handicaps every day for the rest of their lives.
Does anyone else get depressed over how time passes so quickly?
I get very depressed just because the day goes so quickly. When I go and see my girlfriend for example, I can never really enjoy it because I always know that it'll be over so soon, and I'll have to go home, and be very depressed. So I think whats the point in the first place.
I think the same about my life. No one can appreciate or hold on to one moment, so whats the point? I'll just be old and dead in no time at all...
I just spent the last two days in bed, unable to get anything done. This form of malaise is something I've had to deal with all my life. I have learned to just ride it out - but it sucks, nevertheless. A century or two ago, they would have called it an "affliction of melancholy." My IQ is about 145 to 160. I agree with many of the posters here - it seems that the increased awareness that comes with higher than normal intelligence has its downside (the apposite of "ignorance is bliss"). I agree with the one poster that it is important to live in the moment - to just "be." To exist. And the goal of seeking happiness is a fool's game, since it only leads to highs and lows - the key is to seek contendedness. When I reflect on my life, I have no complaints since I have been able to accomplish almost everything that I've wanted. I think the key with depression, is to realize that this is a part of our makeup, and to accept it as just part of life. I read "Indian Camp" by Hemingway, as a youth, and thus I will never kill myself, since that is too easy of a way out - although sometimes it is really tempting to just "turn out the lights." Nevertheless, to those of you out there with high IQs and depression, I simply urge you to find a career or hobby that challenges you - a busy mind is a contended mind. When I was child (I'm now 52), this was before they had prozac, etc. I was able to observe older people and I noted that those who stayed really busy, were rarely depressed. Only those who sat alone, were prone to melancholy. So it goes.
I would like to interject a bit on this topic. From tests I have taken, my IQ is anywhere from 140-165. An official test has it at 152. But that is all besides the point.
Many of us on here struggle with mental issues of some type. Depression or whatever. What makes it the worse is having those around us, on the outside, not understanding or believing what we are trying to deal with.
In just the last couple of years (I am 32), I have found a big problem is my mind being unengaged. I have tried to live the 'normal' life...regular job, watch TV, go out, etc. All this leads to is an increase in my boredom...which ultimately leads to a depression.
In my reflection of late, I look back at the education system. All throughout school, I remember just wondering why we were going over everything so many time. This eventually led to a boredom where all I did was sleep. I can remember sleeping all through HS chemistry. Then when I would ace the test, my teacher would say I was a true case study for osmosis (my book was my pillow).
What I see from all this is the failure of the public education system for those of the gifted to genius IQ level. As a previous posted listed, we pick things up more rapidly than others. I don't need to practice a calculus equation 10 times, after the first or second I understand it. But, the public education system doesn't know how to deal with the gifted. My personal opinion is because those involved in the system do not understand how we learn. And the system is set up to do the most good for the widest group of people. This leaves the gifted at a disadvantage. Many, many become bored from the system and ultimately give up.
I do not blame the education system for not understanding, but I blame them for not recognizing the gifted ones and finding a place for them. I speak about this from experience. I have 5 children. Of the 3 in school, all are gifted. My middle child has already skipped one grade...and should have skipped another one. The first grade she skipped was because I understand her learning style and after explaining to the school, they saw that they would harm her by not advancing her. But, we moved and the current system doesn't realize that they can't help or challenge her.
As a parent, I do not want my children to go through life with the inner struggles I deal with. I see their needs, and I have made a commitment to helping their education even if I have to take them out of the system.
It is my firm belief that if I can help them escape the boredom they will suffer at the hands of the education system, they may be able to live a life free from depression and mental anguish.
I have found this for myself. Even though I have had very successful careers in the electrical analysis and interpretation...I have found it to becoming boring. So, I must transition into something that will stimulate my mind.
As for those that talk about the different medicines, be careful what you take. For a time, I thought medicine would help. When I have been on them for migraines, they actually made things worse. Living in the pharm fog frustrated me, and did nothing to help my mental issues. So just a word of warning, when your depression comes from lack of intellectual stimulation...the meds may not be helpful.
I came upon this article because recently I have been wondering if there is a correlation between anti-depressants and IQ. My main question was, Can the ingredients in anti-depressants effect the neuronal pathways in your brain negatively to where they actually hinder your ability to form 'free-thought'?
This article wasn't exactly what I was looking for, but I thought I'd give fellow bloggers my own spin on things. I've dealt with depression and anxiety since the 4th grade, when my major problems with math became apparent. I flourished in all other academic subjects but square roots and ratios seemed to, and still do, completely confuse me.
Part of my confusion then was because the teacher would ask me to come up to the board and complete a problem, which at the time I felt like I was being picked on for what I didn't know and wasn't able to understand at the time. The constant ridicule by my classmates for intelligent conversation I would bring up, and being ignored by my parents at home didn't exactly help my self esteem either.
Anymore I feel like I am completely trapped within myself, I can only truly express myself through writing because when I speak I feel disconnected with my thoughts. My friends seem to be of no help, I've grown uninterested in them anyway since I've stopped doing drugs and stopped drinking because I linked the two to my current state of 'sludge', turns out the drugs and alcohol aren't the problem.
It seems whatever I do to re-energize my mind and body, just plain doesn't work. And when people talk to me about 'exciting things' or even subjects that are interesting to me, I find little energy to concentrate or follow them.
In short being intelligent in my opinion is a curse if you haven't ever had anyone in your life pushing you, inspiring you, being that drive that all successful people so desperately need. If you didn't have someone giving you such drive, how can you attain that drive later in life? IMO, you can't. Every day I feel like crawling into a hole because I can hardly speak to anyone anymore, and I don't think anybody even cares. People that know the 'normal' me still associate me with other smart people, I just feel like they are mistaken, like I'm really not that smart, I just got lucky somehow along the way....
Smart x Solitude + Angst + Regret = Depression
To Anon above: I could have written your comment, so closely does it follow some of my thinking and experience. As for your "existential anxiety", that's a hard one to shake, as you can't just start believing in something - God for example - that you have no good reason to. The lack of true peers is also troubling - I find it hard to talk to anyone, with 99% of people sounding like morons, which doesn't of course make them bad people.I have never experienced any amount of existential anxiety. I consider myself lucky. I am really, really curious as to what makes people bothered by the idea that there may not be any external purpose for our existence whatsoever.
I've read through the previous posts and noticed that everybody here considers having a high intelligence to be a virtue.
It is not.
High intelligence makes your mind race from here to there. Your brain works in a blistering-paced manner.
This is unnatural. So Nature has got to counteract that annomaly.
Depression is Mother Nature's alternative for your mind to stop rallying. It makes you sad sometimes, but one should regard this just as a counter effect of your brain slowdown.
Maybe depression has a greater incidence on highly gifted people because they are the very people who are endowed with this extra juice in the motor humming inside their heads.
Oops, in the last post I said 'counter effect' but I meant 'side effect'. Sorry.
If you do not agree that high intelligence is not a natural trait, why is not your brother, your jealous neighbour and your dog highly gifted?
Go figure.
Hello all, I am a twenty-four year old male and I assure everyone who has posted here that it is indeed very lonely at the top. Though it's difficult to accurately measure an IQ above 165, my projected IQ is in the high genius category of a supposed IQ of 180. I looked up the incidence of possessing an IQ that high and it is literally about 1 in 1 million. I have to say I have certainly felt that way all my life, and believe me, though one can relish in the fact of being unique, it certainly has had it's drawbacks.
I stumbled across this article today because like many other days, my depression has been getting to me. I queried the correlation between intelligence and depression in the hopes of finding some substantial evidence that there is a strong relationship between the two and to simply see if there are others out there who are experiencing the same things that I am.
My entire life has been rife with being used, abused, and full of others' attempts to terrify and demean me as a result of my intelligence. Both my parents used me as their venom to get back at one another post divorce, and my mother's many boyfriends have always viewed me as an affront to their own seedy and undignified persons. For quite some time, even one of my "best friends" has begun to despise me without any real reason, other than the fact that I represent his own short comings, have exhibited more ability with less effort than he, etc. I am not a braggart when it comes to any of this and have been quite conscious, in fact, hyper-conscious, trying to stem any thoughts of his thinking I feel superior to him. This has always been the case with nearly any other male in my life, and barring very few relationships, have not been able to maintain close to any male relationship at all in my life. I am very grateful that as a result of some freak occurrence my best and closest friend growing up has the same exact IQ I have and thinks very very similarly to me.
Here's a brief primer on my life (ranting aside, I do have a point):
My situation is such that I was always terribly bored in school. There was nothing I couldn't do after being taught once. Having this quality made me extremely lazy and listless, despite the fact that I excel in anything I pursue, whether it be art, writing, mathematics, or singing. I barely passed high school because my depression had taken such a hold on me my senior year. I ended up having to go to a community college as a result, and although I did well, I knew I shouldn't have been there and had become even more depressed. This was partly due to the result of my mother's using me. I never was pushed further through school even though it was recognized that I was highly gifted. Because my birthday lands in July, my mother had the option of enrolling me a grade somewhat early or a grade somewhat late. She intentionally kept me back a year to collect an extra year's child support and later refused to allow me to skip a grade and possibly more when pressed by my guidance counselors.
To add to the matter, her boyfriends were extremely both physically and emotionally abusive. Both her previous and current boyfriends (who by the way, are lower than shit), have always had it out for me as a result of jealousy because of my intelligence. To compound the matter I ended up very good-looking (I have been approached by many modeling scouts). I can duly say without a doubt, contrary to what the reader may believe, these have created blocks for me in my life. Moreover, it is why I can't make many male friendships. It angers me that human beings will only like another to a degree. If a man or woman possesses, in the eyes of others, too much or too many positive qualities, that person is subjected to nothing but disdain and ridicule because of what he or she represents. In short, I have learned that a human being is only allowed to possess so much, and he or she is allowed only go so far in life.
Now, that I have stated my mother issues and rantings, to the point:
From my experiences there is a direct correlation between depression and high IQ. It is a result of both environmental and physiological pressure. My experience has shown that the environmental component has more of an impact in inducing the depressive response in the individual (so far as I, myself, am concerned). Without a doubt, if I hadn't had people perceive me as such a threat to their own being or mate (because obviously, many things with human beings as with other animals, boil down to an instinctual level), I feel I would not be so depressed in life.
The fact as my childhood and closest friend said at a party to me in private last night, after watching all the bullshit and bullshit conversations going on around us. That we both can predict a human being's every move or thought, potentially manipulating every human that comes our way if we wanted, isn't exactly the root of my depression. The fact that what many people construe everyday, trivial common life experiences and disappoints, as wholly unique unto themselves isn't the determining cause for my depression. It is the unprovoked outright hostile deference I receive from others. Always being looked upon as an oddity because when some one speaks to me, I completely throw them for a loop because of my ability to talk and to (at least on some level) comprehend nearly anything, and to further expound on the subject, possibly exceeding the bachelor's own knowledge base. It has not been my fault that I have been a god damned sponge my entire life. And yes, there is knowledge even I don't possess and that should know, but I'm sorry to say my depression has gotten the better of me in my life.
There is seldom any solace in my life. I am very alone. I am looked at upon as an oddity in my life because I do not have many friends, because, despite my good looks, I do not have a girlfriend and in a way choose not to date much (I've yet to date a girl that even understands my thinking, I want an equal, I just want a sweet, unthreatened girl). I have difficulty even speaking to other people and have been perceived as condescending or pretentious, unintentionally on my part. I know well enough that this is a response elicited as a result of my intelligence.
I write this to be a something of consolation to others who are experiencing the same life as I am. You are not alone. Even as much as curse I make it out to be, I am grateful for having the genetic luck of the draw as I do. I do not know who I would be if my mind weren't the way it is and, much like Hemingway, would probably end my life if it were to ever change. And, though I struggle with the thought of suicide in my life, I do have an unending hope that there is the possibility for change, that the change I try to instill in myself will make the world worthwhile. To make it something more profound.
hey, my name is mike, im currently doing an assignment with my thesis being "the potential for deppression is directly proportional to intelligence". Not to seem to contradict what has been said, but it has become very clear in my studies that the more intelligence a person has does not help them deal with everyday situations such as social behaviour. This is no anomoly and this is no myth. Society has had many "tortured genious" cases throughout history, all of which become deppressive because of their ability to analyse their own faults, or simply become displeased with their actions during certain events. Being intelligent does not mean you will be deppressed, all it means is that you have a higher chance of becoming severely deppressed. Influences from childhood and throughout your life have an impact on this, but it is in no way possible to determine if a person will or will not be deppressed because of their intelligence. Instead of looking at things on a linear level you have to realise all the events in a persons life that can lead to deppression. Intelligence is not a means of deppression, but a potential device for magnifying it to all new levels. With that being said there are many concepts i would love to go over, but i came across this in the middle of my research and it seems that i just had to make this point before continueing.
sincerely, mike
I agree with Mike. I have personally found that intelligence magnifies existent stressful factors. My IQ is somewhere around 150 and I've always been an emotionally sensitive individual. Normal stressors like conflict with my parents and fights with friends tend to become magnified because I overanalyze situations. Additionally, I tend to alienate my parents by using language and logic they don't understand. This leads to constant conflict and, thus, depression.
Intelligent people also have the ability of extended, abstract thought. As a teenager currently going through a crisis of faith, I constantly think about religion, creation, and the existence of an afterlife. My parents, as devout Catholics, do not understand why I question their beliefs. They push my away as my constant thought drives me further into depression. Bleak, huh?
This Cracks me up. Nearly all of the above comments say something like "i have a high iq...i believe that there is a definite correlation between high iq and depression."...lol...Meanwhile the original article specifically states...
"Science, however, shows otherwise. When these things are studied systematically, we discover that higher IQ enables one to cope with the stresses of life, even when those stresses are social or psychological."
How high was your iq again?
Well I've just spent the last few minutes reading the above posts and am happy to have done so. I too suffer from what I would say is sever depression. I have never felt like I fit in in life, Regardless of the environment. School was hard for me. I was always able to easily do the work but felt extremely isolated and ended up dropping out at 14. I then became even more isolated and depressed and turned to rebelious behavior. I have always dealt with anger issues as well and eventually ended up in trouble with the law. I spent yrs 22 to 26 in prison. Much of that time spent in isolation. There I found religion and at the time seemed to have found peace. Only in the most dismal of places. I am now 28 and physically free but still mentally bound. Having lived through the nightmare that I did one would think that I should be content with whatever life had to offer but still I suffer daily. I cannot explain what is wrong with me. Looking at myself from another perspective I see that I have been blessed in so many ways yet still cannot escape my torment. The worst part of it all is that I know that I really have no reason to feel the way I do and the mystery of it all only makes it hurt tenfold. I try to escape my reality daily though deep down I know there is no escape. Thoughts of suicide and even attempts are all part of my life. I cannot say that I have completely ruled out the option. I just can't seem to find reason to go on. Suffering is all I know. The only solace I have found was in my darkest, loneliest time of life when I had no one to turn to and sought God. I will continue to try to find the same but am finding it extremely difficult with the distractions of day to day life. My blessings are my curse. This much I know. Thanks for showing me that I am not the only one.
I have degrees in electrical engineering, math, and computer science, where I excelled. I was given an IQ test as a child and scored 150. I dropped out of high school, I have gone through periods of heavy drug and alcohol use, and have never had a healthy social life or intimate relationship. Professionally, I have achieved very little. I do not attribute my difficulties and failures to my ability to succeed in problem solving, but to growing up in a dysfunctional family environment that didn't permit normal social development and to my own procrastination in. Scoring highly on an IQ test and excelling in the abilities that IQ tests are intended to measure probably does help people cope with stressful life events, but I doubt that the connection is strong enough to use IQ tests as a sole predictor of depression. It is not accurate to conclude that very intelligent people do not develop depression.
i think one of the main problems with attaching significance to our IQ is that IQ is such a limited measurement of our vastly complex mental capacities.It measures certain mental abilites in isolation from our emotional potential & therefore is akin to measuring the cylinder size of a cars engine & predicting from that how the car will behave on a winding,hilly,busy,greasy public road! An IQ score can never even begin to predict how a person will function or feel during the course of a varied & ,usually,stressful life.Love would appear to me to be the really powerful mystery that can help us make some sense of our predicament in having landed on this strange old planet ! If you can start absorbing & surrendering to & creating love in your life you can subtly see a change in the way life presents--it becomes more vivid,less fearful & starts offering even deeper potential than you imagined possible--difficult to explain rationally but i have witnessed it happen for myself & others--seems almost miraculous -like what they term "Grace" ? Things i used to hate or take for granted, I am now grateful for eg work,holidays,travel,plants,food,drink,friends,sport etc I am beginning to suspect that there is a greater power there & that most times we are not intelligent enough to concede of its potential. after all it must be based on potential eg if this life in all its complexities is possible(do you think it is possible?!!)why not another level of potential.Energy levels seem to be a paradigm(model)for our universe & can hint at there being more possible than just the one we can witness--this happens ven in our everyday when we accept the force of magnetism or gravity without ever actually seeing them!
I wish you all well in your searches & I most of all wish you can allow yourselves to find love in your lives. CARITAS
As a child, problem solving was something that was normal to me. My parents,however,were always trying to perfect my BEHAVIOR in relation to what was seen as normal.I always did the “right” thing:living according to social norms, but I wasn't able to fully express myself; if my thoughts or emotions fell out of the realm of seeming normal, my parents would try to lead me back onto the path of conformity.
My emotions and thoughts were seen as excessive and socially unacceptable.I learned to regard myself with the idea that something was wrong with me.When I tried to revolt with my emotional insistence,I would be shut up in my room wallowing in sadness for not being able to have a voice.
I learned to accept others for the simple fact that I wanted to be accepted.I was bored in conversation, but believed if I'd conform,I could get along. When I tried to relay anything to my parents or close friends,I'd get “you think too much” or “you're too deep.” How could anyone not WANT to think like me and what's “so deep” about it?I forced myself to think on the surface; it seemed the way to be, but I would write out the thoughts I was having, and sometimes think that only God would understand my mind, since I had a dichotomous view of it myself.In reality, I had to bury my thoughts with the idea they were unfit for average society, thereby burying my own identity.
Conforming was making me sick, bored, and feeling worthless, having nothing to offer; I didn't want to get “stuck.”I couldn't think of anything to help me deal with my confusion, and flurry of thoughts, so I turned to drugs, which seemed to help me forget about mediocrity for the moment, and put me into a higher realm of thinking. Smoking pot relieved past and future thoughts, and helped me to concentrate on understanding my mind in the present. And,I was smart enough to not become addicted.I would write, and I'd feel good. But if the rest of the world would see my writing, they'd think I was CrAzY!
My intelligent over-the-top thinking and altruistic emotional states were becoming overwhelming. I tried therapy and I was diagnosed with depression, but with bouts of intense mania?? hmm Bipolar Disorder..? I was relieved, feeling that it was my brain, yes, perhaps chemically, that made me think differently, excusing elevated thoughts and excess emotion.
I continued an intense existential(soul)search, and I realized there was nothing wrong with me.I am just really smart, smarter than the average, masses, etc. and THAT'S OKAY!It just means that there's more for me to do, of which others are incapable.
I graduated college after 7 years..!I landed a great job which enabled me to travel overseas. Reading, writing and researching eventually took the place of pot smoking and I was feeling FULFILLED.I taught myself what it was like TO BE myself, no longer relying on society to fill that void.I HAD TO organize my abstract mind myself.It was my WILL.And I was smart enough to realize that.
I earned an MA and now I teach ninth grade Literature,WHICH I LOVE! But because I know myself, and my inability to stay intellectually stimulated, I will keep moving. I no longer blame society or my parents. I am no longer selfish or egotistical. Therefore I am open to using society for the benefit of others in my own pursuits.
I am applying for a PhD program for Fall 2010 to join like minds, and entice others' minds. I get to use philosophy, psychology, Literature, metaphysics, and hermeneutics. What a life!
I will never give up on myself. It was the therapists who couldn't acurately assess me, my parents who couldn't deal with me, and most of society who didn't understand me. I appreciate the paradoxes in life, love, nature, and in myself. I accept the challenges, the complexities in life, to help me in understanding society even more so. And with that rounded knowledge base, I will succeed, regardless of potential ups and downs, because I am intelligent enough to realize I get to create my life and who I am.
I looked this subject up because, I wondered if how I feel is due to my intelligence. I was tested at 142 when I was 22 years old. I knew I was naturally smart but, my motivation to achieve was never constant. I have lived with a lot of rewards for my intelligence. Being female, I have also faked it a lot just to not make men feel inferior. Unfortunately, many men don't like smart women and that includes the smart ones. I sometimes asked God why he made me smart if relationships were always going to be difficult because of it. I have been married to some pretty intelligent men who in the end wanted women who could not think or something. I don't know. For smart women, this causes depression. This causes us to be more alone than average thinking women. I have a hard time imagining a relationship because I can't pretend to be dumb anymore. But, I can say that I recognize the cause and take a small dose of prozac to help. I turned to buliding a house for outlet. It was something that took design and learning and has made me very fullfilled intellectually. The physical labor helped too. It has been 4 years and I am a year away from finishing. I will now sell the house and the land and move to somewhere new to start something new. I think that this is the only answer to our depression. I always need to be able to think and not in an office either. That would drive me insane. I will contract out and flip houses or something. I always remember when I feel isolated that I can go and do something because I have the ability. Now, if I could only find someone who might understand me and that would make it all the better. You might think that I am homely or unattractive. The opposite is true. I just feel I have different needs in life and get depressed when I can't always fullfill them. I use MJ to relax as it is the only thing that I trust and know the effects of. Alcohol and harder drugs are crazy and we know you know that... you are too smart. I will say one thing... I do enjoy being alone more than I should. I do not believe that it is abnormal either. It is what I need to be normal. It is normal for me or maybe for us... I need to spend large amounts of time doing puzzles and solving problems and who wants to hang out with me when I am doing my mind exercizing... nobody. No problem, I am not asking anyone to. Depression is something that comes over you, like a blast and even if you talk yourself out of it... it will come back. Just keep talking... and feeding your brain so that it will allow you the in between happiness... I don't want to be less intelligent. I enjoy it too much.
I want to briefly relate my story. I don't like to complain too much to other people, but I just had to write all of this this down.
On one nation-wide test for elementary school-children, I scored at at least two percentiles above average. Unfortunately, this also exactly happens to be the (very low) ceiling of the test, so my real result might be much higer. Years later, on a Mensa admission test, I scored above the 99th percentile with about three standard deviations above average. I have also scored higher than this on a few other tests, but I don't know how accurate they are, so those results might be inflated. I always got straight As and graduated top of my year with honors in high school, and graduated with honors with a Masters degree in a technical field. In my spare time I used to like to read books and papers on mathematics, computer science, theoretical physics, psychology, economics, languages, and other cerebral topics. I only listen to classical music, mostly baroque.
I mention all this not to brag but just to give a reference point for the following. I was bullied somewhat in high school because I wasn't interested in brand-label clothing, and because I got high grades. I got progressively more bored in the later years of high school doing no homework and paying no attention in class (except reading books of my own). In my later high school years, my father suffered from a terminal illness for several years, and died at an early age and in the meanwhile I was forced to leave the house because of his and my mothers temper tantrums. I was also rejected by a girl I had a crush on in the last year of high school, shortly before my father died. Almost no one in my class gave me any kindness in spite of my circumstances. Also I was on poor terms with my mother, getting into fights contiouously. These events plunged me into a suicidal depression. I have been through group therapy, through countless therapists and psychiatric drugs, none of which did any good, and some therapists actively harmed my trust in humanity, threatening to lock me up, if I did not comply with treatment. I moved out of the house, but was still depressed and had almost no close friends. I joined but then later left Mensa, finding the people dull and obnoxious (where else do you find genius garbage men, carpenters and sailors). My undergraduate degree was totally boring, and mostly a waste of time. Only during the master's degree did I feel like I really was learning something, they could have sped up the curriculum by at least three years, as far as I am concerned.
I have had almost no-one to relate to in real life, or even just shoot the shit on a level that is comfortable for me. I continuously need to watch what I say when interacting with strangers, I can't honestly speak my mind, I can't use certain difficult words, I need to bite my tongue continuously, and fake a certain style of interacting, dumbing down and pretending to be interested in mundane topics, such as football, popular music, TV shows, parties, holidays, etc.
Just as I was slowly crawling out of my first depression, half way through university, my grandfather was robbed and killed by someone I knew who had at least two illegitimate children and ran off with the money with his girlfriend. He was found and convicted but was sentenced less years than I went to university and the girlfriend got off free. This plunged me into a second sucidal depression. I received no sympathy from my mother, and withdrew myself from society, and spent over a year angry at humanity and immersed in class work.
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Then, I discovered this "PUA" business and decided I would take a year off after graduating to go out every night and pick up girls. It was effective, but only because it got me into nightclubs, which I normally don't frequent. I don't think there is much to learn about pick-up after that: if you can act fun, social, and confident, you have 90% of "game" down pat (but you also need to be interesting to the average person to maintain a relationship longer than that). It was a very educational experience, in the sense that it gave me insight in how the average person operates. I learned that most people spend an inordinate number of hours trying to get laid or maintain there social connections. I always knew this, but was surprised at the extent. Being popular is full time job. I also always thought that small talk was a way of getting to know someone better, but only lately did I figure out that there is no step two after small talk. For most people that's all there is, they are completely superficial and comformist, like a set of mirrors set up to reflect each other's reflections. I also discovered that there is absolutely no mental developement after high school; people just get a little fatter and balder and so on. Everyone is still just interested in brand clothes (if you're a jock) and playing computer games (if you're a geek) after university. As Michel Houellebecq says in "Whatever", "Man is a diminished adolescent." All my age-mates are interested in is going out, getting drunk, listening to crappy music, smoking weed, playing computer games, and verious permutations thereof. Meeting up with some friends I had in high school, it turns out almost all of my classmates from high school are socialists/leftists and in some cases literally communists, much to my disappointment. In conclusion, I feel like learning "game" might get me laid, but will do no good to achieve my goal of maintaining a long-term relationship, unless I want to be be paired with someone who does not interest me and be phony all the time, so I need to look in other places.
I got mono or chronic fatigue syndrome (sore throat, headaches, muscle aches, chest pain, fatigue, sleepiness), which forced me to interrupt my PUA period, and left me in severe continuous pain for over a year. Doctors did find abnormal blood test results, but were unable to help me, so they sent me home. I have (almost) never actually been helped by doctors in my life, come to think of it. In the meanwhile all my (fake) "friends" dropped all contact with me after I became ill, and I was also forced due to circumstances to move back in with mo mother, to my displeasure. In the meanwhile I lost most of my money (in investments) as the stock market collapsed, and due to expenses while being ill. On top of all this, my hair has started falling out for several years, something I have trying to cure through diet (I have come to believe that most diseases can be prevented through diet, which has left me less than enthousiastic about the medical profession.) There is still more and I left out many details, but this is roughly my predicament.
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To sum up, I am now now in my mid twenties and:
- I have no friends (maybe two not-very-close ones).
- I have no relatives (except my mother whom I despise).
- I have traumatic memories of my late childhood and adolescence.
- I have been depressed most of my late childhood and early adolescence.
- I have never had a girlfriend.
- I have never had a real job.
- I have little money left.
- I have no one to relate to in terms of music tastes, interests, and so on.
- I have a profound animosity for almost all people.
- I don't like my chosen career domain any more.
- I no longer like my interests as I did; everything bores me now.
- I have almost no desire to live, I mostly keep trudging along.
- I think I may have Bipolar Type II (with hypomania).
- I was forced to move in with my mother.
- What currently bothers me the most is that I feel like my chances of attracting a spouse are near to zero.
Seems I am not so smart after all, am I?
Sorry, I do not want to sound like a complainer, but needed to get this off my chest. I am only recenly reading books about gifted adults (such as "Gifted Adults, the Mixed Blessings about Extraordinary Potential", and "Living with Intensity") and have come to the conclusions that this in not an infrequent experience. These highly recommended book describe emotional overexcitabilities, social isolation and underachievement. Of course not every underachiever has a high IQ, and its easy to use this as an excuse, something I need to avoid. But one of the smartest people I know, and one of the few friends I had at university scored above the 99th percentile on several IQ tests. He also decided to leave Mensa, and spends his time in social isolation. He has no friends in real life, has been through four high schools and three universities, and spends his days without a degree programming or playing World of Warcraft (what a waste of brain power). Another extremely smart philosophy student had few friends in university and took a long time to finish his degree. Both of them lost there virginity very late (26 or later). An electrical engineer I knew from Mensa whose interest included Chopin and Schopenhauer, took very long to complete his degree, was probably a thirty-year old virgin, and frustrated with women in general. But all three were not depressed as me.
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My father (an Ashkenazi Jew) was also very intelligent (I estimate between three and four standard deviations), but I recently discovered that he had a mild form of paranoid schizophrenia. There is a strain of mental illness in my fathers side of the family, including alcoholism and personality disorders the details of which I will omit. I fear the relation between genes for IQ and mental illness might be true: James Watson, Albert Einstein and John Nash (who was schizophrenic himself) all had schizophrenic sons. According to researchers, schizophrenia shares genes with autism and with bipolar disorder. I have recently come to suspect or fear I might have inherited some of his genes, and perhaps have Bipolar Type II. I certainly have depression, but am not sure about the hypomania. In any case, I have been suicidally depressed almost continuously since the end of high school, for about a third of my entire life.
I also often don't feel intelligent: I do feel I am smarter than most other people, but not really smart enough to achieve anything of significance; and even if I did win the Nobel Prize (or whatever), it is all meaningless. Fame holds no interest to me. And even if I become rich or famous, I still would not be able to speak my mind to anyone (for fear of James-Watson-style backlash), nor would such have any effect of the world, nor would I have more people to relate to. I also have little desire to aid the human race anymore, consisting of little more than a bunch of eating, defecating, and copulating animals that are inimical to me. As you can see, I share the existential despair of some of the above respondents.
I don't deny that to some extent a higher IQ is advantage in terms of survival, but I agree with Grady Towers that this breaks down at about three standard deviations above average, at which point the person becomes so estranged from society that the high IQ is a liability not an advantage.
I don't know why Mangan is interested in life extension, I have little desire to continue living, I just keep on trucking. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.
Zanzibar: Wow, what a series of comments. A great deal of what you wrote I can relate to, though not the severe depression. What I find mirrors some of my own experience is the estrangement from everyone around you. I don't dislike people, but like you I find that when I use certain words most people don't understand what I'm talking about, And the bit about mental life after school is true: no one seems to be interested in anything - but at least we have the internet, which has been a godsend there. If you like, shoot me an email; it's dennis(underscore)mangan(at)hotmail.
[Sorry could you correct "two percentiles" to "two standard deviations" and delete this post.]
I don't know, some problems with the Internet are:
- I have lost almost all interest in convicing or debating or contributing to humanity.
- I feel like I cannot make a difference even if I do the above.
- It might endager my privacy.
- It might harm me in my personal life.
- It takes a lot of time.
- It is still qualitatively less than face to face communication.
- Books still tend to be higher quality than websites.
- I encounter almost no women on parts the Internet that I read.
Years ago, I use to do a lot of volunteer co-blogging and commenting on a politics/economics website, but in retrospect that now seems just a waste of time.
I am considering permanently moving into a Zen monastery, the problem is I am not a vegetarian.
While Iam a biologist and science educator, I taught college general psychology and even a course in abnormal psychology. I can correct several misconceptions and yet the personal problems pouring forth I would acsribe partly to America's massive dumbing down process which must leave WASPS with high IQ'a adrift in LaLaLand. Before the Sixties one could enter college with a 180 IQ and become a local legend. A frat brother of mine had such an IQ and was certainly intimidating. For example, he would correct our eminent physics professor, Clarence Bennet, before a stunned class who were proud to have such a prof. Bennet had to concede his errors. As eccentric as my friend was, he was actually revered by most U. of Maine students. However, this was another era, when students were much more respectful of authority and in general less arrogant and narcissistic.
The great Lewis Terman refuted the ugly myth about gifted people being "nuts" or weird. Over much of a long lifetime he followed 1300 gifted children almost to the grave. His team ascertained that this group were superior to normal controls in many ways, including, physical health, mental stability,lower divorce rate, wealth, longevity,Etc. They were superior on every measure. IQ is indeed an enormous asset despite the tragedies that plague occasional geniuses.
Depression is slightly higher in high than ordinary IQ people. It is not significantly higher.Perhaps they overanalyse problems, perceive problems where others don't, or run into more trouble in a culture that ignores them in favor of rock-bottom affirmative action non-students.Life cannot be easy in this educational carnival of grade inflation, fudging of grades, and self-esteem reward-yoielding orgies mixed with terrible PC sensitivities.
Many commented according to their folk beliefs, which lead them nowhere. Chronic depression is a real disease that is aggravated by stress. Stress, however, can be increased subjectively by worry. Nonetheless, new "atypical" anti-depressants don't affect the reuptake of neurotransmitters diectly but instead modulate several neurotransmitter systems like dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, and neuropeptides.These can be very effective in reducing depression.
Neurochemistry is developing very rapidly and new drugs appear regularly. Have hope, my friends. For many these pills work miracles!
Just a thought from years of therapy. As a person with a high IQ I see the world differently than let us say someone with an average IQ. That doesn't make me better or worse but it does make me different. On personality test I score outside the mean or out side 95% of those taking the test. About 3% of the people in the world see the world in the same way I see the world. That makes me different. I have often thought this is a mutated form of autism but have no scientific proof. I look past the simple answer for the complex or end result. If "a" happens then "z" will be the result. Looking so far into the future is impossible but the belief that you can see cause and affect makes you control your life or as I phrase it Reduce Life to the lowest common denominator. My life has been difficult because I feel the results of the actions of others long before they actually affect me. I often find myself saying you made your bed you lie in it because I warned them about what would happen if they continued on the path they were on. High IQ does not always cause depression but certainly can. Think about seeing the world in such a way that you consistently cannot understand the actions of others. Why they do not see what the end result of their actions will be. I don't fit in to the world because I don't understand the world. At least not the one that 95% of the world lives in.
Perry Martin:
You are far too analytical abpout social relations. Social relations are instinctual for most people. Social interaction is basic to human nature. This natural tendency can be decimated by childhood isolation and maltreatment. Think about the recent stories of female children kept as sex slaves, especially the Austrian case. Deprivation of normal social interaction and love creates a teribly deficient personality unable to communicate or relate to others at all normally. There is a developmental window which, if abrogated, yields lifelong deficits.
Autism, schizophrenia, and related disorders result in personality problems including inability to assess the emotional life of others. Empathy is only possible if one has a normal set of emotional responses that have been practiced enough to create a kind of "emotional intelligence." This seems easier for females than males. However, it may well be that one whose mind flies too high might also suffer from a lack of emotional intelligence. Such a person would be lost in the rapid- fire sexual playground of today. Even under ideal conditions they might have difficulty finding adequate friends and mates. James Watson was socially awkward and took years to find someone odd enough to appreciate his personality. Oddly, he married her and one child turned out to be schizophrenic.
In general the Richard Feynmans of the world find mates that are brilliant yet somewhat domestic. Jews have an added burden because they usually have to locate Jewish spouses of considerable IQ as well. Joining MENSA might help. Blogging, a sport never before available, now serves a therapeutic purpose for many. However, the Internet also has its demonic forces, so one must be careful.
Don't try so hard to understand others. Try small-scale socializing with some non-threatening people. Try simply enjoying their company without the strain of "understanding" them. Relaxing enough to express yourself emotionally may be a step forward. The cognitive realm is vital but it is not a complete picture of human nature.
When I was little, my father died, and to avoid trauma, my mother took me to a counselor. The counselor recognized right away that I had an advanced vocabulary and asked if they could test my IQ. Turns out I have an IQ of 156. They told my mother to advance me in school, but she did not. At the age of 13 I was doing drugs and drinking because I was bored. I would skip school all the time because I did not need to be there to ace a test. At 15, I was put in counseling again, due to my troubles with alcohol and the law. They gave me all kinds of personality tests that determined that I was antisocial and depressed. I went on to college were I did the same thing, skip classes and abuse drugs and alcohol. I decided to major in psychology so I could figure out what was wrong with me and find a way to fix it. No success. Now at the age of 29, I am convinced that my anger, anxiety, and depression are all caused by my frustration with other people's stupidity.
Reading some of the posts above, I started to see I'm not the only one. I'm 19 years old and I'm no super-genius (I ignore what my IQ is), but since I was young, I had certain special habilities. My parents were very comprehensive and stimmulated me to give all what I had. But my real problems started at school. I had (and still do) some difficulties socializing because at the age of 6 discovered the needle that popped my fantasy bubble: hypocrisy.
As time passed, I withdrew from the rest and started to have these inner dialogs that became more and more complex (besides my completely different taste of music, literature, etc.) and at the age of 12 I had my first existencial crisis. Later in my life, as I kept in these inner dialogs; I became depressed about my life, condemned to go every single day to a place that worshipped hypocrisy and popularity rather than capacity and intellect.
When I started to go to college, I decided to betray myself and decided to "dumb down", to limit myself to small talk with everyone I met and focus on studies; in order to reach hapiness.
Unfortunately for me, my plan backed-fired at me. This isolated me even more, because I saw the enourmous gap between me and my classmates, in terms of knowledge; and what ratheled me the most was that they had a lot of friends and they were happy. But how could they? They flunked at exams, failed subjects and they were happy, and their friends didn't care. They shared the same dumb interests, the same dumb hobbies and the same dumb view of life.
Now I found myself deeper in the hole I tried to get out from, now I realize that happiness is a very hard thing to find when you see people's actions and thoughts coming a mile away, when you can read them like a book; when you think differently that what society tries to fill you up with. I've now accepted my destiny. Ignorance per se is not a bliss, but being and ignorant and being surrounded by others ignorants who understand you and are like you, that's their bliss. Their happiness and our sadness is in the numbers.
I would have to concur with the overall comments on intelligence and seeing the big picture, problems fitting in to what we are told is the "norm" of society, etc. Being highly artistic and relatively intelligent [ school year scores of 133 ], I have struggled my entire life to put forth what society at large deems are "normal" countenances, reactions, etc to social situations. This has lead in later life to a variety of minor problems for me in trying to "dumb myself down" so as to have less hassles, be acceptable, find understanding, succeed in workplaces, etc. Read that as excess drinking, antisocial behavior, depression, withdrawal and mood swings. I have wished at times that there was a "happy accident" that would leave me without the ability to see behind the curtain as it were.
It is a double edged sword because as a creative [painter] I am glad I have this ability which in turn drives my art, but as someone trying to stand in a government authorized line, make sense of the cell phone bill, talk to tech support on anything or just hope that people as a whole could wake up and see a little more - it depresses me to the point of drawing the curtains and not wanting to leave the house. So there it is... just a thought.
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