Is it possible to be too intelligent?
In conversations with acquaintances about my super-intelligent 6-year-old nephew, I have rediscovered the popular mythology about high intelligence. The myth's most common version is something like: "genius, a blessing and a curse". The idea of the "tormented genius" remains in the popular consciousness: composers like Beethoven and Schumann, scientists like Newton, philosophers like Wittgenstein and Russell, poets such as Shelley and Blake and Chatterton, writers like Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, or Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Faulkner, and O'Neil, the latter four all alcoholics.
But for every one of these examples many counterexamples could be given. With composers, Haydn and Bach; with scientists, van Leeuvenhoek (discoverer of bacteria) or Einstein or many others; with philosophers, Spinoza or Epicurus or Plotinus; the list could go on and on.
Intelligence is like money: it does bring with it a set of problems which its absence does not, but given the choice, most people would rather be rich than poor, intelligent than stupid. Intelligence and money are virtues in the original sense of the word: they are powers. They both confer greater control over the world.
High IQ is positively correlated with monetary income, with low rates of social pathologies such as crime, being on the dole, and divorce, with low rates of suicide. The smarter you are, the more likely you are to avoid accidents, be in better health, and live longer. Who would not wish for those things?
Is there a downside to high intelligence? The obvious one is a true lack of peers. The genius will almost inevitably find those around him uninteresting. But these days, with the internet and with the efficiency which our society is able to channel the highly capable into higher education and important jobs (this is one of the main points of Herrnstein and Murray's The Bell Curve), one is no longer limited to those in physical proximity for a peer group.
One adverse effect of high intelligence might be boredom. My nephew had to be withdrawn from school when it became obvious that not only were they not teaching him according to his potential, but that he was bored to death, unwilling to pay attention to what was happening in the classroom. Even now, his parents have trouble getting him to study "easy" things; he likes the challenge of difficult problems in learning. But boredom need not be an insuperable problem; infinite resources are available (and here I am talking not just about a gifted child, but any intelligent person), one merely has to find them.


23 Comments:
I agree with your points about the advantages of intelligence completely. But I think you're underestimating how important peers are, and how difficult it can be as a child to find them.
As a child, I don't know if I was "super-intelligent", but I was smart enough that my third-grade teacher told my parents she felt that I was smarter than her and didn't know what to do with me.
It was very difficult, not because I didn't have friends but because other children and often adults didn't have the same interests I did. Due to my voracious reading, I would often use words that people didn't understand, or concepts they hadn't heard of.
I soon learned that if I wanted people to like me, I had to pretend to be stupider than I was (Intelligent people are often the focus of resentment). I spent most of my junior high and high school years wishing to be stupider, because then it would be easier to get along with others and I wouldn't have to pretend.
I'm female though; maybe it will be different for your nephew since intelligence is generally more accepted in men.
I don't understand why you think that boredon is associated with intelligence. An intelligent person can always find some interest in either him/herself or the external world.
Just make sure he's popular. Keep him away from science fiction and all the rest. It's much more important than being smart in the long run.
I disagree completely. I won't go so far as to make any statements about my intelligence level as it would serve no purpose. This is after all the internet where anything and everything is said.
Growing up was horrible. I did not have one friend until high school amongst that time I only had 3. 2 of them were ranked as some of the most intelligent students (at the time) in the state. The other was a foreign exchange student who excelled at anything he chose to.
I got into arguements with my teachers all of the time because I either disagreed with something that was being said or was bored to tears and did not wish to be there. All of my grades were horrible and I had a bad household growing up which did not contribute to it much.
I ended up spending most of my time fighting and trying to be left alone. I got perfect scores on almost every test and failed every class work and homework assignment. Naturally from not doing it.
I graduated highschool with a below average GPA. And now wishing to go to college have no scholarships and work a menial job. Partially a lack of motivation but at the time I did not appreciate the consequences of my actions in any long term situation.
Intelligence is not a blessing. Because almost never is it accompanied with any ability to regulate yourself in day to day society. I have learned hard work goes much further than genius. That applies for just about everything. And I am working really hard to make up the mistakes of my past but feel suffocated doing it.
I still have no one to communicate with and life in general sucks. I am not a depressive person but I really wonder why I do it every day. I have learned boredom is the worst feeling in the world. I would rather be dumb and interested in things then bored.
whoa.." I would rather be dumb and interested in things then bored..."
I truely don't know anyone with high IQ who would want dumb down their ability. it is very true that a genius IQ mind is one without peers. If your IQ happens to proximate 150-160 range, then you truely need an attitude adjustment in order to cope with society in general. In order to fit in anywhere, you will need to dumb yourself down to average people' level. This is done by you stop questioning and analyzing everything because normal people rarely do it with any degree of sophistication.
Speaking from the top of the IQ Chart as I've been scoring at 160+ on numerous tests on and off-line, I can tell you that I truely have been living with monkeys for all my life. people are boring. Just imagine how exciting it is for me to live in a world where everyone that is 10 year old and never grow any further. I kept myself busy with scientific researchs in the medical field because I found it
challenging to my innate curiorsity. Other than that, I tend to treasure people with high ability that I can come to reason with. I found that most people I meet are as boring as apes in human clothing. In a hypothetical world populated with real human, I would expect everyone to be an Einstein, Issac Newton, Charle Darwin, Robert Oppenheimer, william Sidis.....
Anyone else who doesn't fit in this group's general profile(almost everbody) is very boring to me. Normal people are just ape. How sad it is to live in a world where everyone is retarded from your point of view !!!
I am sure many who read this will not come to accept with my view but the difference between a genius IQ 160 and an average IQ of 115 is VAST. It is as big as a gap between chimp and human. If you have an average IQ, then you are a chimp in my eye. Average people, however, are the majority and majority always RULED. I consider this arrangement a win-win situation. I am happy to be me having come to term with the world as is.
Genius is lonely. Wisdom is lonelier still. The combination is a killer.
Of course it's easy to have a deep, satisfying emotional relationship with a dog or a rabbit, but living in a world where you have no peers or intellectual equals is horribly lonely. And working for a chimpanzee can be intensely frustrating.
It's the inability to share more than a tiny fraction of who I am with others that's hardest for me. Feeling light years apart from others, because I can't bridge the gap between my consciousness and theirs.
Most of the women that I date think I'm an idiot, or just plain crazy-- because they can't even begin to comprehend my thought processes, and there's no way that I can explain them. It's like trying to teach algebra to a sea urchin.
But I love puppies and bunny rabbits. There's nothing whatsoever lacking in puppies and bunny rabbits. I just need something more sometimes. That's all. I need to share things that I can't share with puppies and bunny rabbits.
Intelligence is only a part of my problem. I'm also vastly wiser than the average person, as a result of a unique constellation of life experiences, combined with a high existential intelligence aptitude. And, in this world, wisdom is much rarer than intelligence.
This is the world I live in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3efW4AziWCg
Although an essential component of high achievement, raw intelligence is overrated. What really counts is achievement.
To anyone who likes to think garden variety smart people are chimps I'd like to pose the following question: what have YOU achieved to justify feeling superior?
If you are really smart, have lived all your life in a first world nation, and have achieved nothing, you should be deeply ashamed of yourself.
I'd think it's within reason for me to say that I am superior to you or any other person that I come into contact with. I mean my conciousness has to exist in order for my world to exist. It is MY concious awareness that give rise to you. You're welcome into my world but it only exist because I exist...if that make sense.
I'm just a fifteen-year-old, kinda feel a little out of place with all you creditable people. I have to say, I don't want to sound like a broken parrot, but school is overly suppressing. Mr. Anonymous, what you said about school is just about where I am now, and it's got me really scared. Haha, I do try to liven things up by playing banjo in the halls every now and then, but I'm still bored out of my mind and haven't learned a blessed thing from most of my classes.
I too long for a peer. I'd quote Frankenstein, but my memory doesn't feel like working at 2:30 in the morning. I have tonnes of friends at school, but I don't have anyone to really relate to in my being different. I think my IQ is around 150, i dunno for sure.
My question: is artistic ability part of intelligence? Because I've been painting, and my ego-shoulder-devil commands me to boast that I am pretty good for being a kid, and have recently discovered my musical inclination. So yeah, I was wondering if I can still be a crazy artist and join the genius club.
I would have to agree with almost all that has been said by everyone, especially the anonymous poster early on in the thread. I know logically I shouldn't have anything to complain about, but there is a detriment to being highly intelligent and having other qualities that while seen in a person on an individual basis, more than one of those qualities in one individual is seen as intimidating.
This isn't me bragging, but supposedly I have everything; a tested IQ of 170+, apptitudes in art (drawing and painting), writing, and music (singing, guitar, and drums). To boot I'm said to have model looks. I'm tall at 6'2", athletic, I've had multiple modelling scouts in my life approach me, but it's all meaningless in the grand scheme of things. I have little to no friends, people don't take a liking to me, and even the friends, my best friends, I feel greatly resent me. I'm not a braggart or an elitist, I don't go around telling everyone I'm so great. In fact I'm quite insecure because of all this in many ways as much as my qualities have given me confidence in the things I like.
I've even squandered my life as anonymous has. I did poorly in school, and like him, I would ace tests but fail or perform miserably in school because I wouldn't do any homework as I was terribly bored. Also, when it came to school (venting now) I was supposed to have skipped a grade three times in my life, but my mother refused because she wanted to stretch out child support payments from my father.
My intelligence I feel at times has made me lazy as well. Imagine that if you were interested in something and all you had to do was just "learn it" (read a book once or never have to take notes or study to ace tests for example) or practice it and you would pick whatever activity that it is up at a freakishly quick pace, but you lack the drive to go through with anything for long because it's so easy to learn. Like learning how to drum in about 1 to 2 months fairly well and eventually getting pretty good, then losing interest in it. Now my drumming skills have just remained static.
I can say I'm living the same life as anonymous as I'm now working a crappy job trying to put myself through school because I sabotaged myself early on. For the life of me though I wouldn't change anything because it would be debasing myself. I hope other readers feel the same.
Iam highly intelligent and a loser
Looks like some of you share the same experiences as mine. All I can see around me are dumb people. I have no real friends nor peers. Solitude is my best friend. Life in high school is pretty boring. I envy those who got their own circle of friends.
"There are two kinds of geniuses. The characteristic of the one is roaring, but the lightning is meagre and rarely strikes; the other kind is characterized by reflection by which it constrains itself or restrains the roaring. But the lightning is all the more intense; with the speed and sureness of lightning it hits the selected particular points - and is fatal." - Kierkegaard
Buck up, young lions.
It's nice seeing I'm not alone in my thoughts on intellect and its positive relation to solitude, even if I have nothing positive to say about it. It's far too easy to learn things as merely thinking about them will do the job, the problem comes when thinking about the future, as no matter how much thought goes into it, the effect is infinitely minimal.
Try explaining that to the 'blanks' and see what they have to say...
But if we are to leave the future up to less intelligent hands, be prepared and accepting of living our lifes at thier fate. Government will control us indefinetly. what do you have to say about that?
I can tell you have no clue what you're talking about. I have an IQ of 172 and here's _proof_ that you can be too intelligent....
Infinite values can be assigned in any continuum that does not have a designated endpoint because infinite scenarios means infinite results. With infinite results the case of being "too" intelligent, accompanied by the possibility*[1] of not being intelligent enough _must_ occur.
*[1]I have no proof that there is a single turning point where intelligence becomes negative instead of positive.
You're also underestimating the lack of peers. For me to find somebody that has half my mental capability I would have to examine roughly ~50,000 people. Also, I've never experienced a relationship of any kind where I was interested in the other person. I'm not even fascinated by my own mind any longer as I'm completely aware of the mathematical model behind human computation.
I'd much rather be content than have an excessive ability.
As soon as you figure out you are considerably smarter than the average chump, find some endeavour or interest that can take you away from people. Not as an exclusive feature, but some creative or intellectual field that will replace the socializing that takes up the mental energy of most others.
Develop it and cherish those you meet who you can relate to, at least in that particular activity. And never apologize for your specialized avocation.
I am 15 years old I haven't Taken an Iq test.
But I am more intelligent than that of the average person.
That much is not hard to work out.
I have the capability to understand things that most average people seem to have some difficulty understanding.
My mother has an Iq of around 120-130
and is incredibly insightful and has a natural tendency to question everything.
I Generally have a lot of problems socializing with other people due to the fact that they behave ignorantly.
My tendency to question everything, and take nothing as truth until i have fully understood the entirety of it.
I see most people as ignorant, especially those who claim to be intelligent just because they have knowledge or excellent grades in academics.
I have a small group of friends who are for the most part more intelligent than 90% of all people i have met.
I have trouble conveying thoughts to these people due to my ineptitude at explaining things in a logical manner.
But i find myself bored with school aswell my grades are c's and f's, i have a lack of motivation to do anything majorly worthwhile.
Anything religious,political,world-history related, or psychological holds great interest for me,and i am able to understand just about all situations that i have come across in debates that i have partook in, seen on political debates, religious debates and so on.
I can comprehend all of this with almost no thought at all,and psychology comes naturally to me aswell i can read body language and after about 2-3 days of having about a schools length of contact with a person i fully understand there personallity and there behavior and so far in the large amount of people i have met this has remained true.
I have smoked weed for about 6months now
and started popping pills a few days ago, i also smoke.
I have an attitude of if i get myself in trouble i can get myself of it.My nature has also question religion and science,I am an atheist,and i belive a lot of science that is proposed to us through the school system is just plain crap,100% bull.
So in my personal opinion, Intelligence can be a double-edged sword.
From what ive witnessed,read and studied,
depending on the variables in each individual persons upbringing or natural mindset,it can help you hinder you, your environment has much to with is aswell,but it can lead one to belive one is above others due to the others ignorance or even their own to some degree,in others it can spark a desire to fit in and one will act and behave differently in order to seem as something they are not,in my case its a combination of both, i understand to some degree what i am capable of if i apply myself, but i lack a desire to make anything of myself,i have no desire to be rich,famous,a criminal,o anything of that nature.
All i want is to Live a life of mediocrity,an average house,a happy relationship with my wife,2 kids a boy and a girl, and one dog.
Thats all i want out of life.
On somthing i should of mentioned earlier,Parents,also do not help with anything,if they know you are intelligent,they expect you to do well,when you fail to meet expectation(in my case to lack of motivation),punishment is often given along with pressure to do better,all that does for me is make me resent my intelligence more because your parents expect more of you than what you want to give,i just want to be normal and average, so my desire to use my intelligence is minimal.
So its quite easilly possible for people to handle the gift of intelligence multiple ways.
Also as for the last anonymous,
I may not be correct,but i do believe the deciding factor of too much intelligence or too little intelligence,is dependent on each and every individual to themselves,of course as with all things there are limits to where there particular intelligence is no longer satisfactory to continue on,depending on the endeavor approached, and the reverse it also true there is a point where there intelligence is too high to get satisfaction from other endeavors,so therefore i do believe you are incorrect due to the fact you consider it a universal limit,when in actuality the limit is dependent,And no there is no proof of there being a turning point, due to the fact that three is no average to the limits that are set on people,also positive and negative are also dependent on individuals as well, take for instance sadism and masochism,both things can be considered negative to some yet positive to others.
Also you lack any comprehension of the fact that intelligence is not absolute,someone who has a significantly lower IQ than you is quite possibly more capable than you in some things.
You lack of ability to find interest in people derives from the fact you consider yourself superior,and you over-exaggerate your intelligence.
your intelligence is severely limited by your lack of understanding of the things that so called ordinary people take as difficult,fun.
and for being bored of your own mind is also to be honest 100% crap.
You just lack the ability to question,at any point that seems illogical, you most likely dismiss it,change the meaning of it to be logical.Try thinking of it as illogical and try not to just understand it and learn it but to question it,uncover what led that to become illogical, or take whats logical and try to understand why it is logical, and dont use just science or math,use life experiences,emotions, and this may sound like a childs idea imagination.
Illogical thinking is often the forerunner to that which becomes logic.
If you master mind over matter.
Then you can be bored of your own mind.
Don't just look for complexity,look for simplicity.
look for more than what is explained.
I may be completely wrong in my understanding of this or right.
But if a 15 year old can find flaw in logic such as that then there is quite possibly truth maybe whole or just half.But as i said don't just use logic use imagination.
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Contact me ASAP in cerebrals' forum !
If someone can give this message of me, by any mean, to Everlynn, thank you very much !
Christelle
Just skimming this thread, but i think the comment about keeping him away from science fiction shows a gross ignorance of the state of popular culture today and a gross underestimation of the number of friends from all demographics and BOTH genders that can be made by people with sci-fi/fantasy interests. For example, I attended a sci/fi fantasy convention this summer which boasted attendance of a least 50,000, and these were definitely not all the stereotypical nerd.
"To anyone who likes to think garden variety smart people are chimps I'd like to pose the following question: what have YOU achieved to justify feeling superior?"
To a certain extent, I think increasing specialization has decreased the correlation between general intelligence and achievement.
Consider a general intelligence "genius" versus an "idiot savant" who is only super-proficient in one thing. At 15, when most boys have reached maturity, the genius will find he is good at pretty much everything. The idiot savant will hopefully discover that he is good at one thing, and mediocre at everything else. A few of the geniuses, for whatever reason, will fully commit themselves to a "calling", but most will equivocate and put off the decision in search of some higher truth. While the genius is becoming a "well-rounded" person, the idiots savant are mastering their craft and surpassing the potential of the equivalent genius.
Achievement is a function of commitment, mastery, and luck. The highly intelligent are more likely to achieve at an above-average level, because they are capable of mastery in any subject. But this ability also makes them more reluctant to commit to any one endeavor because their general potential makes them more risk-averse, and being a numerical minority makes them less likely to benefit from luck.
But the idiot savants, even if 99/100 of them become abject failures, are more likely to be represented at the highest level because of their extreme levels of commitment and their early devotion to mastery of the trait toward which they are naturally advantaged.
Of the 6 billion people in the world, the greatest physicist will be the one among the most naturally gifted at physics who is most devoted to his or her craft. Our American education system, in which most students are coddled for 22 years in "liberal arts" indoctrination programs without being prodded toward a vocation, only retards the progress of the generally intelligent.
Intelligence is not a blessing. Because almost never is it accompanied with any ability to regulate yourself in day to day society. I have learned hard work goes much further than genius. That applies for just about everything. And I am working really hard to make up the mistakes of my past but feel suffocated doing it.
I guess the question for most of us then is, is underachievement genetic?
I should have been in school, but instead I did a lot of cocaine and meaningless sex.
Now, I make a lot of money as a tradesman in a union job (money that I would not make in the South) but I'm still unsatisfied.
Thankfully, and I encourage you all to use e-harmony (I just got lucky in a bar) to find the one, I found a woman who is intelligent enough to stimulate me and so superior in the moral arena that I'm constantly challenged.
Ahh, being intelligent can be an absolute curse at times. Its easy to overanalyze, rules seem arbitrary, constant paranoia, and so on and so forth. Whats helps me is reading philosophy. Contemplating issues like the existences of a god, an afterlife, the scale of the universe can really place an intelligent person in their place. It sure did for me. One thing I realized through philosophy is how little I know, despite my huge noggin.
Finally, here's an argument I tell myself when my senses are overwhelm me. Imagine a super nova in the sky. Thats a spacial phenonomena we know took place billions of years ago. Imagine a pencil being place in a glass of water. Due to light refracting, it appears that the pencil is being bent. Both these examples illustrate times when our eyes can definitively tell us that our minds are playing tricks on us....But on the other hand, isn't it paradoxical to say "I know when my eyes are playing tricks on me".....The definition of a trick makes it inherently impossible to propose exactly when your mind plays tricks on you. In the grand scheme of things, don't let panic ever overcome you. This world we live in, could be an illusion, the people we talk to, could be figments of our imaginations. So might as well buckle up, and have a fun time! Also, when this bizarre idea of mine overwhelms me, I revert back to a suggestion made by philosopher David Hume. When Hume feels overwhelmed by philosophical dilemnas he would revert back to a childhood pasttime like backgammon. Find your version of a backgammon.
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